Out of curiosity could this work in Indiana?
 

Out of curiosity could this work in Indiana?

Could a Crate Non-Wing deal like the Wisconsin wingLESS work in Indiana?

I was thinking maybe at non Indiana sprint car tracks. Don't know if two non-wing divisions at the same track would work.

They get a great field of cars each week. Wilmot gave the division time to build up a field and and keep them around. Been to Wilmot a few times and think they put on a good show.

I see their gonna be at Gas City October 22nd & 23rd

Wisconsin wingLESS website - http://www.wisconsinwingless.com/rules/
Wisconsin wingLESS rules - http://www.wisconsinwingless.com/dow....aspx?i=641180


Just wondered from a fan of the division.

Why? Those GM604s are $7-8k without fuel system. By the time you complete it you could buy a good used complete 12degree engine that could run more competitive at numerous tracks on numerous nights.

Re: Out of curiosity could this work in Indiana?
 

you should check out how that worked out for the modified in the Missouri / Kansas area. multiple classes of them with 7 or 8 cars in each. And now they have started to work the same magic on the street/hobby/pure stocks

Why we don’t need another class of sprint cars to water down the races

Nope!!

I thought Plymouth Speedway (Indiana) tried to run 604 crate Sprintcars and got only a handful of cars.

Re: Out of curiosity could this work in Indiana?
 

They where wing and it was a joke.
In my opinion it should have been a non-wing division and with the same rules as the Wisconsin wingLESS and they might have drawn a good field of cars.
There where folks here in Indiana ready to build a car if they would have went non-wing.
The most they ever had for a race was I believe 14.
I think what hurt that place is the management didn't listen to anyone with dirt racing experience & knowledge except maybe one or two people very high in the racing food chain.

My original post was for racing this division at weekly non sprint car tracks like Montpelier, Brownstown, Shadyhill, Twin Cities, & Thunder Valley.

To the guy who said GMG604 for $7-$8K. You can get them under $6k. Original asking price from GM $5,500

Just my thoughts and figured I'd ask.

Re: Out of curiosity could this work in Indiana?
 

I agree, however those reasonable -12 engines are getting harder and harder to come by. They will be like a VW that sold cheap for years, now you cant find one.

Re: Out of curiosity could this work in Indiana?
 

I think there are way to many classes period. The only thing crates have done is reduce or eliminate the 410-unlimited classes I look at LM's and see several tracks that had 30-40 plus car counts weekly in super late now can['t get full fields for 12k to win shows. but the crates have double conisis.

Quite honestly, I wish the racesaver would be wingless and 360 ASCS wingless be top. still cost you a pretty penny to get a good motor but it would last a season or more.

Just two many, classes even the mini sprints are dwindling and lets face it, when car counts drop, so do the fan base. doesn't matter how many classes in the pits.

Im kind of the opinion that the 410 is dying quickly. Perhaps a few tracks could survive on teams running selloff stuff. But without the purses to support it. specials only.

Re: Out of curiosity could this work in Indiana?
 

I don't think bringing another budget friendly sprint car/midget class would work. Especially since the crate engines are not the cheapest things, last time I checked the engines were 7-8k.

Instead of bringing more classes, people should join already existing classes. For instance the MMSA with the Mini sprints or the USAC MTM D2/Speed2 series. Both classes/series has had several newer people come to the series, both getting good car counts and still being affordable. Neither may be sprint cars, but still an affordable way to race open wheel cars.

The Wisconsin Wingless aren’t that exciting to watch. They look like sprint cars but without the balls.

Crate engines have their place in the Motorsports industry. In my opinion, that place is not in a Sprint Car. Carburators are for fender cars.

I know not everyone likes the Racesaver class, and obviously I am biased. However, we keep the wings on not only because of the national rules but also because it offers something different in this state at a very reasonable price. Additionally we do not want to compete with other non wing classes that are very well established around the state. And before everyone piles on about the wings making for boring races, I would argue you might not be watching our races very closely. They aren't all barn burners, but we have some very exciting races pretty consistently.

Our car counts have been growing or steady for 6 years now and we race at several tracks in the state, both sprint car tracks and non sprint car tracks.

To the topic of this thread, I would say that the Wingless class in WI is great, but not ideal for IN. Interestingly enough though, what I believe was a crate engine just won a non wing race at Circle City for the Steel Block Sprint guys. So maybe I don't know anything haha.

Hope you all get to see some good racing before the year ends. The Schaeffer's Oil Indiana Racesavers will be at Terre Haute with the USAC Sprints on Oct 1 and at the Kokomo Klash on Oct 15. Two great opportunities to see what we have to offer on both a big track and a little one!

If you read this far, thanks!

-Alfred

Re: Out of curiosity could this work in Indiana?
 

Check out the Baldwin Racing engines LS410 While still 45k some teams have raced them three seasons now no rebuilds. 925hp Beats having two to four 410s 950-1000hp too get thru a season with one or two in rebuild stages.

The top two in the Little 500 were LS platform engines and Kody has won other Pavement races with it including USAC IRP, Hurst Brothers is LS based, won many races and track championships

Sorry, with the exception of maybe 15 high paying races. I don't see the platform surviving. Several of the USAC teams are combos of two or three teams Instead of three individual cars.

Im no expert and in many cases I'm wrong. But the eye test says. We're in trouble and I would hate to see the day again like we had with Winged racing of 6-10 cars showing up

Spec racing is trash.

Re: Out of curiosity could this work in Indiana?
 

Chuck we bought a mini sprint a couple of months ago and the two nights we have ran have both had over 30 cars entered. This past weekend at Haubstadt they had 31 entries, so no, they are not dwindling.

Re: Out of curiosity could this work in Indiana?
 

Good to hear Jake, hope you are well.

Re: Out of curiosity could this work in Indiana?
 

Also there has been 70 or 80 different people to at least compete once during the 2021 season to collect points. For some of them people they got into a car that someone else ran. I think the highest car count was 35 for the MMSA this year.
We'd personally go to run with the MMSA more, but they're limited on non wing races and a lot of races are about 250-350 miles each way.

The hurst brothers is NOT LS based has BD 2000 heads from Brodix

We already have a steel block series and there are 305’s (won 1 race), crates (won 1race), and a whole bunch of other configurations in that class and last race there was 17 cars. From beinging if of year till now the class is growing but it was only the first year of it.

As far as I know, Gurley does have a crate engine in it.
On another part from your post, I went to Circle City for a Thursday 410 wing show earlier in the year, and you guys were there. Easily better racing than the 410s. I thought the 305s were the best class there that night.

Idk about Indiana, but they tried 602 Non wing sprints here in FL at 4 17 Southern Speedway and it never took off. I think they ran 2 or 3 races, drew like 5 cars. More series with different rules= lower car counts everywhere

Re: Out of curiosity could this work in Indiana?
 

I've seen Race Saver 305 run top seven in boss at Atomic and Attica/Fremont 305s run top five at eldora. Think it's a heck of a starter setup. Think all that other stuff is just that.. something that gets started and not well supported or able to draw from outside its group.

But that Baldwin 925 horse two and a half seasons between refresh might be a option for some to get into the sport and stay awhile in full up Non Wing Sprints.
Info on it

Engine information from Baldwin Racing Engines:

We have finally got together a full quote for a turnkey LS410 Sprint engine. Dart aluminum block, billet Callie’s crankshaft, Dyers rods, custom CP pistons w/DLC pins, custom All-Pro heads w/Ti valves, DLC lifters, Jesel shaft rockers, custom Billet Engler injection, Wolff 5 stage pump and plumbing, Olson oil pan, water pump and all plumbing. Engine weight was 340#, engine chassis dyno’s at Engler 880hp and 685lbsft. So the engine roughly makes 925hp and 725lbsft, much lower cost of operation. Great drivability and power. Complete package is $45,500.00 so considerably less upfront cost as well. Contact us for more info, 3 years on run time on this combo with great results.