World of outlaws to implement fire suppression system in ‘23
 

WORLD OF OUTLAWS TO IMPLEMENT FIRE SUPPRESSION SYSTEM IN 2023


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https://worldofoutlaws.com/sprintcar...cMztyzO7btfUiY

Re: World of outlaws to implement fire suppression system in
 

Who will be the first to cross drill his system to lighten it? :3:

Re: World of outlaws to implement fire suppression system in
 

Back in the 70's sprints had fire supression systems and a guy from New Mexico crashed hard and the bottle exploded and blew off some of his foot.....but at least he wasn't burned :)

In my opinion, anyone caught compromising any required safety equipment should be suspended for a year. If you think that's harsh go visit a burn center. Or better yet, go talk to Harli White

You think maybe fire suppression systems have possibly improved in the last 50 years?

I believe that was Roy Hicks wasn’t it ?

Couldn’t agree with you more. And we raced at I-44 with Harli, so we know first hand. That’s why I’m glad we now race at a track owned by firemen.

WoO and Lucas Oil Late Model Series have mandated on-board fire suppression for a while now. The really good thing is that many of the regional series have followed suit. Same with SFI tagged seats and fuel cells.

As a casual fan at best what does this do to a race team that doesn’t normally run with WoO. Like the guys that strap a wing on at haubstadt. Is this a major cost or hassle to add or not that big of a deal? * I know it’s a safety feature and some will have negative comments for me calling it a hassle so take the term lightly. I think everyone knows what I mean.

The Late Model system is around $750. I assume the Sprint Car system will be similar in price.

WoO and SFI are going to mandate what the systems consist of. Once the kits are standardized they should be pretty much plug and play.

My take would be that if you can't afford a fire system for your 410 Sprint Car you're in the wrong class.

Re: World of outlaws to implement fire suppression system in
 

I guess we'll find out.

Re: World of outlaws to implement fire suppression system in
 

Is anyone using them NOW? Does any series/track require them?

Nope, not to my knowledge.

Since the SFI spec for a Sprint Car system doesn’t currently exist, you can't go buy one that meets 2023 rules today if you wanted to.

When are we going to except the fact auto racing is dangerous people get hurt and killed in this sport its not touch football we as drivers owners and teams accept this and if you don't stay out of the cars simple fix just the way I see it

Re: World of outlaws to implement fire suppression system in
 

Some 30 years later we have gotten to a place where we are working to prevent another Doug Wolfgang situation. Crashing is inherent and we all accept it, but fire is the silent one and biggest fear of all.

After last year's two fiery crashes, Knoxville prelim night with McMahan/Macedo and the qualifying fire of Zeb Wise in Pa its time we use our knowledge and technology for better protection. The cost of such is an added cost, but if you ask Wolf.....I"m sure he'd be the first to tell you that cost ain't $h!t.

I applaud the WoO for pushing the safety envelope. Never thought I would see this type of safety element in sprint cars.

Re: World of outlaws to implement fire suppression system in
 

woo makes them run wings, fire suppression system is the next logical step.

Re: World of outlaws to implement fire suppression system in
 

Somebody on Hoseheads said there is a system for $600 (maybe it was two years ago and is $750 now)...either way, not too bad if your racing for $10,000 to win...but proly won't do anything to help a team thats struggling just to be there...

Back in the day, before seat belts, the thought was it was better to be thrown clear; missing the fire!

Rex Mays wasn't it, one of my favorite drivers of the period? Thrown out of his car and then ran over on the track after hitting the wall.

Heck I am one that believes that the best thing that could happen for sprint car racing is cut the roll cages off of them and bring back the respect for one another cause 1 bone head move can cost you the ultimate price then it goes back to who is willing to pay that price thats why racing has gotten the way it has the false since of security

I'm just a simple minded fan. A dusty track doesn't ruin my night. Over priced concessions don't ruin my night. Questionable restrooms don't ruin my night. The one thing that is absolutely guaranteed to ruin my night is to see a racer seriously injured or killed.

I would think that it will hurt there car count from the local cars.

Re: World of outlaws to implement fire suppression system in
 

Not sure if you're referring to Roy Hicks but it didnt blow his foot off but the bottle did go through his ankle.
This happened at Winchester in 79 or so.

Re: World of outlaws to implement fire suppression system in
 

Folks,

While I am older than several on this forum there are a few things I am ignorant about concerning earlier sprint car construction. Can someone enlighten me as to the location of the fuel pump on injected cars of the 60's, 70's, etc.? Was it in the cockpit as they have been for the last few decades?

Tim Simmons

I don't recall seeing any driven off of a wheel, but I bet they have been.

Old Hilborn pumps ran off the front of the cam.

Here's a picture of an injected front engine dragster. They still run about the same setup.

Re: World of outlaws to implement fire suppression system in
 

While you may find comfort in that, make sure you are responsible for your own safety as well. I was racing in Sun Prairie with a new car back around 2008 and had an engine fire from a cracked fuel fitting on the injection. I pulled in by the push off area and several people came running with fire extinguishers. The first three extinguishers did not work. It wasn't until the fourth person came over with a working extinguisher that it was put out. I was pleasntly surprised to see a whole bunch of new fire extinguishers at the track the following week.

Re: World of outlaws to implement fire suppression system in
 

Interesting - No high pressure fuel pump/fittings/hoses/bypasses in the cockpit between the driver's legs.

Tim Simmons

Totally agree. Safety is our responsibility first.

At least since we started running at The Prairie, no cars are on the track until the safety crew is suited up and in position, even for engine heat.

We started giving a weight break to guys for putting them in cars with WAR a couple years ago.. Quite a few teams put them in with no issues.

I’ve ran them both ways on the sprints and silver crown cars. Both ways have their pluses and minuses. In the mid 90’s Waterman had an emergency fuel shut off valve that we ran on the silver crown cars. It had a pin with a red flag attached to it so it was visible to the safety crews. You pulled a pin and then pulled a t handle attached to a cable and it shut the fuel off at the tank.

Re: World of outlaws to implement fire suppression system in
 

I am guessing the extinguishing agent would be dry chem(ical). In closed cockpit cars the immediate concern is the driver compartment. I seem to remember when the extinguishers went off that was the target. Subsequently track workers/first responders would hit under the hood once they arrived on the scene. For a sprinter, with an open cockpit, I assume the target would be under the cowl at the engine directly for the automatic discharge? Would there be nozzles to hit the driver/seat area, also? Maybe a discharge directly at the fuel tank from the cockpit back?

I understand the overall goal, I am just trying to get an idea on how to accomplish said goal and maximize the driver protection.

The Late Model system has four nozzles.

Off the top of my head if I'm plumbing a Sprint Car with four nozzles: one in the engine bay, one aimed at the fuel pump, one aimed at the driver's torso, one aimed at the fuel cell.

I could see the Sprint Car system only having three nozzles.

Description of the system...

Re: World of outlaws to implement fire suppression system in
 

NHRA has ran them for years.

Re: World of outlaws to implement fire suppression system in
 

I still run the Waterman shutoff valve on my Silver Crown tank. While a step in the right direction we need to realize that we are counting on the driver to be coherent enough to pull this pin (if the release is in the cockpit) along with scrambling to get out of the car. Ours is external, so a track worker would have to pull this pin. After his fire Wolfgang was credited with the valve, in the same location, that opened only with oil pressure. A little more of an automatic system but I don't know if anyone is running that or not.

Here is where I'm coming from - I know of no other form of automobile racing that allows the fuel pump to be located within the confines of the cockpit. What we have in open wheel racing is the pump in the cockpit of a vehicle with significantly more propensity to flip, etc. With the added requirement of the safety seats in an already confined cockpit it becomes difficult to exit in a hurry should the need arise. Wouldn't we also need to look at re-locating the fuel pump outside the cockpit, along with the fire suppression system? Doesn't removing the fuel potential add another layer of safety?

Just more food for thought.

Tim Simmons

The Racesaver series gives a 25lb. weight break if you run a fire suppression/extinguisher system. We have run the King system for 6 years with no issues. I feel so strongly about this that NPD will sell anyone the system at our dealer cost + shipping ( this system is under $500 our cost). Just call/text Duke at 317-450-7564 or contact Alex Nalon on Facebook.
Remember you only get one chance!

Re: World of outlaws to implement fire suppression system in
 

Yes it does. Remove the entire system - pump, filter, lines. Wolfgang's issue started when a filter cracked/broke off if I remember correctly.

Re: World of outlaws to implement fire suppression system in
 

The cable driven, in-tank pumps that Waterman built solved the problem of having the pump and some fuel system plumbing in the cockpit, was used in midgets, sprints and silver crown but there were big reliability issues with the cable drive so it fell out of favor pretty quickly.
There were also frame-mounted, cable driven pumps on some silver crown cars as well.

I seem to remember it was mandated by USAC for the ill-fated new generation crown cars.

As far as a shut off valve at the tank, carbureted stock cars use a check valve off the fuel cell that only opens when it sense a slight vacuum created by the fuel pump with the engine running. They were a brass body, -8 inline unit kinda looks like a bypass and cost about $50.

I would guess the All Stars will follow WoO's lead and require them next year, and I would image they will just up the minimum weight by the weight of the fire system. I would also anticipate that all the nozzles will be in the cockpit area, you would need all of the agent you can get in an open cockpit car and with only a 5 lb system you probably couldn't do the other locations effectively. Safecraft has an automatically activated system that starts at around $600 designed for sprint cars, it uses a 3M liquid agent (not dry chemical). There was a really cool video on their website showing the system in action.

Re: World of outlaws to implement fire suppression system in
 

Duke,

When you say there have been no issues, have you had occasion to need the fire suppression system, as in- have you had a fire that required it? If so, were there any ill-effects of the agent to the driver? I'm wondering if the chemical used works by removing the oxygen required for a fire, essentially smothering the flame, or does it "douse" the fire by removing the heat required for a fire. Hopefully SFI will be looking at this, as well, so the prevention of burns to the driver doesn't cause lasting ill-effects on the driver.

Tim Simmons

I would like to thank Mr Gentry for stating an indisputable fact, one that needs to be brought up as a reminder from time to time. That said I’m all for reasonable and tangible safety improvements that works for most racers.