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Gyatk?
I dont have many bad things to say about Kokomo, but i liked it better when they ran nearly every Sunday....I dont like the "special shows only" idea...idle for another Sunday is a bummer.
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what are you willing to pay to see it¿ unless a track has lots of sponsorship they arent making a dime on a weekly show unless they have 5 or six classes with all but one taking in more at the back gate than their purse pays out.
that dont work well for sunday night. |
Re: Gyatk?
I would have to disagree Charles. Kokomo has survived for almost 70 years and been running weekly shows on Sundays for as long as I can remember. Being a Kokomo native I assure you that the track has plenty of weekly support. The Oconners are very adept at running a good show, and have(until recently) ran weekly shows since they took ownership of the track. The crowds and the participants have been plentiful stretching back to the Lipkey days. I too want to see the track being used weekly,instead of being a novelty. Many of local fans cant afford the extra cost of the special shows when taking the family to the races, however they do support the weekly events. And maybe I just need my fix of horsepower and dirt more than 17 times between May and September. ONLY 2 of the dates on the schedule are regular shows, the other 15 are special shows with higher admission costs.
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Re: Gyatk?
I don't think I said anything wrong, Or untrue, If it was worth their while to run weekly, The gates would be open every Sunday. It takes a significant investment just to open the gates, add a couple rain outs that the money is already spent with no return......... and a couple drizzly days or radar don't look good but they still run which the crowd is a third less or more than normal..........
I also don't know the owner situation, But if your splitting a profit three, four or five ways. Its a big difference vs ONE. I don't know most stuff. Only the people I've talked too in it, A couple promoters, former promoters and long time workers at tracks that have told me, that if everything goes right, they make a little $$. Most times it's a break even or sometimes lose situation. And most of us have no idea they put a five thousand dollar tranny in that water truck this week, replaced a dozen lights on the track, Spent a couple grand on boards in the grandstand, Rented or bought several pumps and kept them running two or three days straight. Fought the lawsuit from the guy who tripped on a concrete seam and broke a leg. etc. etc. When they tell you they only make decent $$$ on a few shows a year (Enough to cover all that stuff and still put decent $$ in their pocket), Its kinda hard to believe. When you see the track close permanently, Or open and close several times with different promoters-owners, Reality sets in. So I ask again, What are you willing to pay to see it? $16, $18, $20? so they make a profit, and enough profit to cover the times they don't and still make it worth the hours and effort week in and out. And you get to see racing every week. |
Re: Gyatk?
Kokomo has 17 race dates on their schedule. If they ran weekly from mid May till Labor Day like a lot of track do they would still have 17 shows. Does not seem like too bad a trade off to me.
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Re: Gyatk?
I will take those special shows over weekly stuff any day at that track. Kokomo is around a 2 hour drive for me and that drive really sucks with all the road construction that's been going on for years on US31! Years and Years of construction! Alternate routes are filled with construction as well. So when I think about all the times I have driven up there thru the years only going a few times a years makes that track to me that much more special. If I want to go to a weekly show I'll go to Bloomington. But I also see the other side of it and some people would love them to run every Sunday and for most that would be fine but for me I like it just the way it is.
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Re: Gyatk?
We went thought this with Haubstadt several years ago, at first we all were kinda lost. But when those special events came up Man you were chomping on the bit bout Tuesday before the race . Now every race is truly a special event. Yes Haubstadt like all other tracks are down on car counts no matter the purse, But the cars that show up put on shows that makes you leave with a smile on your face that takes a week to go away. So hang in there and give them a chamce I don"t think you"ll be disappointed :8:
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Re: Gyatk?
Lots of thoughtful comments. Mine is this: Kokomo, Bloomington, LPS, Lawrenceburg, Haubstadt, Montpelier, Plymouth, Twin Cities?, Gas City?, not to mention those in adjacent states. All of these to a certain degree chasing the same dollar i.e., fans and participants. This makes a promoters job even more difficult. I have been around this game for several decades and sometimes we are our own worst enemy in terms of over-saturation. We all want to see short track racing prosper, but just like all change is not positive, more is not necessarily good either.
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It's all good at kokomo Sunday night.just leave a little bit earlier and go to half moon salon and have a great lunch and then go to Kokomo speedway and enjoy talking to some great racing fans and get ready for the sunday matinee and get out of there at 9:30 for the 2 hour trip home. Have fun and enjoy the great racing events at kokomo speedway.
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I am a believer that weekly shows are more profitable than Sanctions. Take Bloomington for example this year are sanctioning less shows and doing more weekly deals. I do not know the cost of USAC or WOO or MSCS or MOWA but if it's say $10,000 that's 500 more butts you have to put in the seats at $20 to pay the added expense
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Re: Gyatk?
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Bloomington didn't need those events to be sanctioned. They already had all the top drivers competing at the Sheldon Kinser Memorial and a great fan following, and the crowd was almost standing room only for the fireworks show. When the new promoters made those events sanctioned there wasn't much to gain for them. I think they realized that after the fact and went back to the way Mike and Judy used to do it, without a sanction. |
Re: Gyatk?
ScottyCbus I think you missed the point. If you only make it to Kokomo a few times a year for special shows. that's fine, I only make it to a lot of tracks for special shows. But Kokomo has always been a weekly track that people will come to. Same as for Ascot,Knoxville, Williams Grove etc. And road construction has no bearing on this point. Kokomo is arguably the best sprint car track in the country and one of the only to run on Sunday nights. To see it sit idle on beautiful Sunday nights is a bummer.
As for Charles....let me pose a question to you. IF a promoter is breaking even or barely making a profit, then how in the world can Kokomo Speedway offer FREE admission for the night before the Smackdown year after year? I think we can both agree that it is not out of the kindness of their hearts. Still the same amount of track prep, payroll and utilities! The OConners are great people but are also in business to make money. Bill Lipkey didn't die a poor man, and he only ran 2-3 special shows a year. Think about it......... |
Re: Gyatk?
How do you compare three nights of smackdown with a bonus show for fans with to a regular show anyway? A 7k purse at `12 dollars a person vs a 23k purse at 25 a person? The track may make ten grand, fifteen or twenty grand on a weekly show. OK Fine. Split that three ways to the owners and take away the prep, food purchase and payroll. What's left?
Vs say a Sprintweek show at 3k people at average of 22 a head. I got it worked out that a USAC Purse, sanction fee etc cost 27 thousand roughly. Im not all that far off. But if you get the numbers of people and average gate of that amount including pits, teens and Sr's. Thats almost a 40k profit. not including concessions, souvineers, after race beer parties., The cost of prep, food purchase and payroll is roughly the same as your weekly show. Perhaps you have some additional cost in advertising and ticket sales. But clearly thats a lot more and what may keep them able to run a few weekly shows. I don't know what the wed's show on smackdown is, Just a bonus for the fans to attend. Or a chance for people who have never been to see a show for free? Some of which will come back and spend $$ Some that wouldn't have been there without it and still spending some $$ at concessions and such. Its not a USAC National Points race, Im not sure it carries the USAC purse ( I know they aren't racing for nothing) It all comes back to what I thought as my original response. If it were worth while be open every week, Wouldn't they be? Are they only able to run weekly shows based on the success of the specials? I don't know Kokomo's plans, buisness model, anything. I know they've tried adding THAT and for some reason it didn't pan out to continue. This is the second year of Gas City and who knows if that will continue? I've heard there are some planned investments to kokomo, mostly fan related, but have nothing confirmed so maybe weekly shows are in it's future? Time will tell. I think all the tracks save LPS are closed a few weekends and all have a alternative show or two. My God, we got the best racing in my view in the world and tracks stands are less than three quarters full and sometimes less than half. Put a Monster Truck out there and it will sell out with SRO............. |
Every decision has its pros and cons. Kokomo is a blue collar town and there are many families that will do a weekly show because they can afford it but probably wont come to Smackdown...but the down side to a sporadic schedule is these people start doing other things on their Sundays and soon attendance declines because people have lots of options and now Sundays arent the day the go to the track anymore...For decades K has put on some of the best weekly shows because they get cars and have little competition from other tracks on Sunday (plus its just a great place). Im not saying eliminate specials its just as in any business, a known cadence or routine helps grow the business. Ever wonder why bars are open always? Its because if they only opened occasionally they soon would suffer to the competition. Kokomo has great weekly racing that stands by itself and needs no sanction from week to week, and the past success from decades shows that it can in fact be successful.
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Re: Gyatk?
I have no problem with the way Kokomo runs things. The O'Connors run the track as they see fit and they do a G-R-E-A-T job in doing so. I cannot remember when I've left that facility in recent memory thinking, "man, that sucked".
A month or so ago I went to a show there, it wasn't sanctioned by USAC, MSCS, WoO or anyone else. Just Kokomo running on a Sunday night. None of this "special" talk. The heats were fantastic and I already had my moneys worth right there. By 5 laps into the sprint car feature Sean Buckley (aka Jackslash) and I are looking at each other in disbelief at the racing we've just seen and we were only a handful of laps into a 25 lap feature. 3 wide all over the place and they would run like that for multiple laps. At the end KTJ pulled it out and only after he was up and over the cushion, bouncin' off the wall in the final laps battling with Shane Cottle. It was INSANE. Hell, even the stocks and hornets put on killer shows that night. If I remember correctly the hornets were racing so hard one even got upside down. But for all those folks complaining about them not running weekly shows, where were you? You may have been there, you may have not. But the stands were not close to full. It was only 12 bucks to get in that night and if you had a kid 10 and under it was free (as always). It was the same story last Sunday when Josh Hodges raced the wheels off his sprint to get by Jerry Coons Jr. to get the win. Weather was great and again it was only $12. So where was everyone? People are quick to complain about tracks not running as many shows as they use to. But why should they? When Gas City was racing every Friday night I used to get out of classes as an underclassman in college in Fort Wayne, scamper home, feed my dog, change clothes and hurry down. Sad part was even though there were 30 sprints plus mods and whatever else was running that night...the stands would be more than half empty. Weekly show, wasn't expensive. And if I'd have thought it was expensive I wouldn't have gone, and at the time I was a sophomore in college working a minimum wage job, broke as hell. But what money I did have I felt was more well spent at a track than getting liquored up at a watering hole. So if I could make that one work...we'll just leave it at that. I'm not in everyone's shoes. I understand everyone's schedules are different, I understand that people have different incomes. I get it. But quit complaining. Please, it gets old. And in all honesty I don't know why people are complaining that a track doesn't run weekly shows but can't afford to go to a "special" show. I mean lets do the math. Kokomo didn't run last night. You saved $12. So that should mean when Indiana Sprint Week comes to town next Saturday and you have an extra $12 bucks in the "race fund jar". Admission for that one is $25. $12 you saved from no weekly show this Sunday + $12 you'd be spending if Indiana Sprint Week was a routine show = $24. You're only down $1 and if you're that hard up for 4 extra quarters come see me prior to the race, I'll be in the RV lot somewhere drinking Keystone Light. I'll gladly give you a buck if you're that dedicated and just want to see good racing. |
Re: Gyatk?
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$4 you saved from buying Keystones plus $4 you saved by sitting at home and you could buy yourself a couple more racing stickers....If your that hard up for a beer come to the backstretch and we will give you a real beer AND a history lesson. |
Re: Gyatk?
Shamrock, In some aspects I do agree with you, others I do not.
First of all, I was not implying that anyone said the racing sucked just making an observation that 95% of the time you go to Kokomo, you're going to see a good show and that is how I chose to word it. Yes, I'm younger but it's not like I just went there for the first time. My first memory of going there was in the 90s, not going to apologize for the fact I'm young and can't remember Rich Vogler racing or wasn't born soon enough to see Bob Kinser win track championships. However, don't think that because I'm younger than yourself that I'm ignorant to anything racing related prior to the 2000s. Yes, you're correct, everyone is entitled to an opinion. I'm pointing out the fact that so many complain without thinking. Yes a weekly show will almost certainly never be standing room only. I'm asking where was everyone on these past regular Sunday night shows that were unsanctioned. The stands weren't even close to half full. A cheap, regular Sunday night show is what fans here are asking for, the O'Connors have given them that. Yet there aren't a lot of fans showing up. You're right there is a lot of local support but to make it worth while for the track to keep doing it, there has to be more. And as you pointed out, it takes a lot to break even or even make a profit. I do have a little insight because my family promoted and ran a track for years. It's hard work to run a smooth, timely show whether your're running sprints or go karts and it costs a lot of money. People don't take into account the money and logistics involved, not saying that's you, but there are plenty out there that turn a blind eye to it. You don't need to talk to me about how expensive racing is, also raced in my younger years and grew up in a racing family. But as you said, not what this post is about, just letting you know I'm not ignorant to how deep in the wallet you have to dig to go racing. Also, I appreciate the offer for the beer but don't knock my Keystone, been drinking it for years and will continue doing so because its what I prefer. The Budweiser products sold at the track just don't do it for me but I'll gladly sit and talk racing with you or anyone else anytime there aren't cars on the track. |
Nice reply Nate-I only knocked your Keystones because you implied you would give me a dollar if I was hard up--in the end we both want mostly the same thing-that being a healthy supply of dirt racing in Indiana...
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But then as time went by she would only show up once, maybe twice a month, and I noticed the “price” was going up. Harder to get a good seat, too, if you know what I mean. Lot’s of other customers and fans. The drought in between “shows” was starting to take its toll on me, too. Believe you me – I was becoming a lost man! Desperate! No loving in site! Thought I was at the end of my rope! And then one day I looked around the "bar” and realized there were other options. Maybe not as good, but at least cheaper if anything. I needed a fix. Bad, too. The monkey was on my back. Now, I have to admit it, I find myself getting around a lot more these days. Gas City, Butler, Hartford, Crystal, I-96, Plymouth….. I’m up for it. Front gate. Back gate. Tail gate. Pit gate. Big tracks. Short tracks. One groove tracks. Real wide tracks. Slick tracks. Tacky tracks. Dusty tracks. Red clay. Black clay. Brown clay. I don’t care anymore. I shower the dirt off the next morning! But as much as that aforementioned monthly deal has taken its toll on me, I still go back when I can. And it is GREAT! I don’t care how many other fans are in the same house! I’ve become a dirt track *****. It’s a pretty cool life. I recommend it to all. And now if you’ll excuse me, I have to go take my medication before my next sorti…… |
Always need to remember they race on Sunday night. Die hard fans will always show up but casual fans or those not local may not want to attend when they have to work the next day. Also, crowds at Kokomo dwindle during August after school starts so they decided to do 3 nights of a special show in lieu of 3 regular poorly attended shows. Smackdown has been a tremendous success. I no longer live in Kokomo but when I did I would in a heartbeat trade 3 weekly shows for Smackdown. Yes it costs more but buy tickets early and you get a pit pass and if money is tight you have the winter to save up. BTW, I will come back to IN from NC for Smackdown. Everyone will view this differently but since the track continues to have special events it is obviously better for attendance and profits or they would change
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Re: Gyatk?
If the money is there, do it.
If the money isn't there, then you shouldn't do it. Simple short track formula..... |
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I wouldn't call wanting weekly shows "complaining", more like stating a wish.... can't always get what you want... I wish they had 410s in Colorado! oh well..... |
Re: Gyatk?
um, by the way, what does "Gyatk" mean, anyway?
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Re: Gyatk?
I was at the King of the Wings show at Baer Field on Sunday before a pretty heavy rain washed it out just before the heats.
Just curious. If Kokomo would have scheduled a race last Sunday, would they have been rained out anyway? |
Just curious. If Kokomo would have scheduled a race last Sunday, would they have been rained out anyway?[/QUOTE]
I made the comment...good thing Kokomo wasn't scheduled to race tonight...cause we woulda been rained off... It stormed pretty good late in the day and into the early evening... *disclamer...It rained like a cow pizzin on a rock 6 miles west of Koko Sdy... Twice... But it coulda missed the track... |
Kokomo was dry & clear last Sunday
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Re: Gyatk?
What I really wish for is for all the tracks to move up the starting time to 7 p.m.; then I feel like I am actually getting some night racing!
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What Im saying is, If they can't make a little $$ at $12 or $15. What would you be willing to pay to make it worth it for them to do it? and I started at $16. One track raised the gate three bucks this year, Lowered the kids age by two years and NOBODY SAID A WORD and they shouldn't. The products totally worth it. |
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