[jdull99]

Originally Posted by jdull99 Thank-you for sharing that. When I read this one - back in 2021 - I thought maybe Robin was delirious, as he was passing away, and it would never happen! Thankfully all parties involved got it to this point at least! (Too bad about the rain today though, and I'm shocked they are saying Indy is priority, but the NASCAR point deal is different than it used to be...some hate it, I'm fine with parts of it. This could be a time it benefits a situation that many think is neat...).

I remain shocked he might miss out on the Cup championship for this Indy 500 effort...pretty cool that he did, and he said today he would do it again - but proly won't get to if stuff like this doesn't get worked out...

https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/mot...a08627fc3&ei=7

Some of the drivers are pushing to keep him out of the championship...some are supporting the waiver tho...

[DirtTrackTherapy16J]

Good morning Jason...I've been kinda following this post and your comments and although we have disagreed at times on other post I have thought all your comments have been spot on with this thread.

I'm not a big Indy or Nascar car fan. Big reason is I'm not a big pavement fan. Much rather watch racing on dirt, preferably Sprints. With that said though, I did watch the 500 and it was bc of 3 very specific reasons. #1 Kokomo got rained out. #2 they lifted the blackout. #3 although not a diehard Larson fan, I do respect him and appreciate him for what he does for the sport and the fans he generates which grows the sport. I also went over to a friend's house in which 12 people was watching the Indy500. Out of the other 11 people noone could tell you a single drivers name except Larson. Larson drew that entire family into the race simply bc he was racing.

Later after the race and into the night, Kyle, his wife, the pilot(s) fly into a storm trying to make it to Charlotte in time to still run some of the Nascar race. Clearly the guy was giving it all he had to try and run both races and become a part of history. It was incredible to follow and watch and had so many viewers that likely wouldn't have watched under normal circumstances. Larson clearly helped the sport and even TV ratings that day and night wether someone is a fan of Larson or not.

Following your post and media, it floors me that they have not gave him a pass/waiver/ whatever technical term one may want to use. My question for you sir being that I'm not huge into Indy or Nascar, is why do you think they are not or have not yet gave him a pass/waiver when clearly they have for others in the past?

Also I'm not a huge fan of bending and breaking rules for one particular person regardless who the person is, but this was a special part and piece of history and had it not been for uncontrollable circumstances involving rain at both tracks, Kyle would have never been late or missed any part of either race, regardless where he finished.

[jdull99]

Appreciate the question and your detailed post. Well worded and with good info! (the 11 Larson fans watching the 500 was GREAT news...too bad ratings weren't anything too special, but they could have been worse/most likely would have been without Kyle...).

I guess, it has all been a learning experience. To go back to the beginning; IF the 1st PR from the Hendrick/McLaren camp had said "Kyle is going to run the Indy 500, and due to the weather, he will get a waiver from NASCAR"; it just left me questioning on how it was going to work out. Over a week later, many of us who care (like almost 3m watch almost every week; I follow it as I can - not usually watching really...listening to the radio broadcast while completing other tasks), are still wondering.

So, next, I learned you cannot ask for a waiver until AFTER you miss a race. Ok, but I would certainly think Rick Hendrick would have those conversations with NASCAR as much as anyone (he got an extra car in a race once - Budweiser sponsorship - and an extra car in the playoffs - Jeff Gordon - after the Truex/Bowyer spin out deal in the last race of that year). But, so far, this waiver still hasn't happened...

The main rule is (from link below): Per section 12.3.2.1.A of the NASCAR Rule Book, the language reads, “Unless otherwise authorized by NASCAR, driver(s) and Team Owner(s) must start all Championship Events of the current season to be eligible for The Playoffs. If a starting position was not earned, then the driver(s) and Team Owner(s) must have attempted to Qualify, at the discretion of the Series Managing Director, for the Race.”

At the point in time in which the transportation from Indy to Charlotte; could not be achieved before the start of the Cup race (maybe after the 500 started, I'm not sure, but how lame it woulda been if he started the 500 and ran 20 laps and then left - like Tony was minutes away from leaving Indy in 01 and Robby left on lap 29 in 04 to go to Charlotte), they clearly gave up the chance of starting the Cup race. Now, if they are good at presenting their case, perhaps they could provide weather predictions that indicated it was going to rain at the scheduled start time of the Cup race...

Do I wish and hope they get the waiver? Yes, other than maybe if they don't, it will be the best shot C Bell (or even another open wheeler like Tyler Reddick) ever have to win the Cup champ (if Kyle isn't eligible). Of coarse, I want them to get the waiver tho and for all of them to race it out (really wish Bell and Tyler weren't in TRDs, but TRD certainly spent more $ on Bell than any other OEM has spent on any recent driver at any time and it is great to see when that is working out)...

But you have to look at from the sanctioning bodies eyes. Let's connect it to dirt racing: The main organization that seems to limit drivers running outside of their series is the WoO. So, simply, its like a driver running a non-WoO outside of the rules however they are for that (they get like 4 other sanctioned races, plus the Knox Nationals, right?).

As hard as it is to say; I mean do we really expect NASCAR to say someone running the Indy 500 is more important than their races? We may think and feel it certainly is, but in their mind, how could it be? Joey Lagano (who I don't like) apparently keeps saying he thinks running some late model race somewhere is more important to him (and he might wana miss some race...)...that is the problem...many of the other owners and drivers want to keep Kyle out and will be bargaining NASCAR to do so...

Now, Kyle said at least Sunday on Raceday, he doesn't care and he will still run for the owners championship and that is what they get paid for; but I wish they could say; if we don't get a waiver maybe Kyle just won't run some Cup races...ideally getting more laps running every Indycar oval race, maybe even a couple road courses; and maybe just some sprint car races he wants to...but I don't see that happening...

Here is another good article on it. This is one of Kelly's better penned stories and I (kinda like you said about me, lol) will say I agree with most of it.

https://racer.com/2024/06/03/nascar-...te-the-policy/

I can't find the list of waivers (I swear I posted it before), but I am certain it has also included - or it woulda, if needed - waivers for drivers to miss races for the birth of their children. I understand that Kelly would not want to say she had a problem with that, but it is hard to think that is "ok" either...I mean is hard to type it, but I grew up in a time - or read about drivers like Richard Petty/Bobby Unser/etc - when this would have never happened "back in the day". They had to go to their job!

I followed NASCAR around the time Ricky Rudd was racing barely able to hold his eyes open, drivers raced with broken legs and other bones/sternums (Dale Sr.), concussions, concussions AND broken bones (Davey Allison comes most of mind). etc...So I really honestly think there should not be ANY playoff waiver...medical or personal - I myself, even raced ("just" a micro, after we moved to 2nd in points) with a broken wrist once (I finished the race but after a few laps decided...hmm...what would happen if I broke the OTHER wrist? Then how would I use the restroom...? - with two casts on...), but we won our 2nd feature back with a half cast on (one of my biggest wins, Cornfest night at APS) and the next year, after a couple hard wrecks (not all of them were on the racetrack), I was literally seeing stars when I was getting up from under the car while working on it; and I figured it was from the head injuries (had a few over the years, including a craniotomy that year previous...); and I didn't really tell anyone I knew too well, but I think I did consult some old school cool-guy racers; if they thought I should race the next day (we did...helped us get 3rd in points that year at least). At no point would I have ever considered a waiver or a drop race. There was a race on the schedule, it was understood you had to be there to get the points...(later the next week, my chiropractor convinced me the stars I was seeing was more signals from my neck muscles telling my brain to take it easy and heal...that worked for me!) - these were all GREAT times in my racing "career" and memorable...

But again, I do WISH and HOPE that there is a waiver in this case (since playoff waivers exist in the first place); but until it happens, I will remain in suspense. I'd say I'd boycott NASCAR if they do not grant one, but as long as Bell, Reddick, Briscoe, & Stenhouse are running Cup and Allgaeir, Love, The Dinger, etc are running Xfinty (sometimes last week's top 10 usac sprint car feature finisher/hard charger award winner! - JJ Yeley, runs both); I know that I won't (boycott it...). Plus Kyle says what he really cares about was the 1st championship he got anyway...

And, I would certainly think qualifying the day before and the effort they made to fly there, would be worth something...

Otherwise, NASCAR just needs to change the rule, that if you are in the top points positions (last I knew in Cup, its supposed to be the top 30 in those points, if you had won one race and there weren't 16 other winners that year); the driver would make the playoffs. So maybe as simple as saying you have to be in the top 20/25 in points? (Meaning skipping a race would make that tougher, but not impossible if you were a guy that finished up front in most of the races u competed in). But, like the WoO; they are gona want their drivers at every race...its a tough call...we know what we WANT them to do, but will they do it???


I gota ask, since you mentioned it at 1st, (I only keep track of a couple guys on here that I have had keyboard battles with...); what have we disagreed with at times? (I'd say "lol" but someone on here, years ago, said I say that too much...). The most contentious points I recall are; most recently, the big deal about coolers at THAT (), my take on the restrictions during the pandemic (a discussion point on this forum, during those times) which was originally called the Wuhan Virus (I think time has shown those restrictions were ill-founded) and the fact bmara outlawed 20 year old race engines (but after I sold mine, I got over it, and have appreciated just following that style of midget racing as it is...which I still say is expensive, just not as expensive as a modern national engine...). Was it one of those topics, or something else??? (Only reply if you wish, no hard feelings either way).

[jdull99]

He got it...we can move on...lol

Still wished he'd run an oval indycar race somewhere else too...

https://racer.com/2024/06/04/nascar-...layoff-waiver/

[Hubie48]

Like the post but not reading all the NASCAR fine print. Just don't care. For the good of the sport overall they should have bent the rules to suit Larson's needs. One time, next year, we already accommodated you.

Back when I was a kid there were many NASCAR (Taxi Cab) drivers doing Indy. I could name them but most here have some knowledge of it. Why? It paid a heck of a lot more. Same for the GP drivers who came over in '63 thru '70. As a Jim Clark aficionado I was shocked to read of just how little he was paid. Those cars were massively dangerous and he knew it. They all did. It's worth mentioning that Chapman kind of jipped Jimmy out of his winning Pace Car. Those were different times. Marketing was something the wife did!

NASCAR lost me when they went to segments. I quit being a die hard fan when the "car of tomorrow" or whatever they called it came to be. As passionate as I am about Silver Crown I never saw one of those spec cars turn a wheel and I have been to a boat load of Silver Crown, or Champ Car races.

[B99]

NASCAR at some point became USAC/AAA, as has the WoO with protectionism built into their rules. Fact is, NASCAR should return their waiver process to injuries only, and frankly Charlotte ought to move the start time back a bit for the 600 and Indy needs to go to a 12 noon start time, screw NBC. Having drivers be able to do both (and there are several that would like to) was/is a big deal for both sports. Larson's day moved the needle for both Indy Car and NASCAR, and to be honest, THE 500 is still bigger than Daytona or the Coke 600. NASCAR can't get over that fact, despite the fact the rest of their series far overshadows Indy Car's schedule

More crossover would be great for the sport in general. It certainly was years ago.

[jdull99]

I'd like to think Indy is bigger than Daytona, and I personally believe it is - to true race fans and in meaning - but Daytona (sadly) continues to get better TV ratings...

It was "easier" for outside drivers to run Indy back in the day, as it was on Memorial Day, which was on May 30/31 until like 1971; so they weren't up against other races during those times...(as May 30/31 didn't happen to be on a Sunday in the 50s & 60s - at least...)

& it was part of the "f-1" circuit from 1950-1960, and in the 60s, it looks like the only conflict woulda been in 1965...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1961_Formula_One_season

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...is_500_winners

World 100 (in the 60s - 1st year was 1960)

1960 June 19* 89 Joe Lee Johnson Paul McDuffie Chevrolet 400 600 (965.606) 506 107.735 Report [15]
1961 May 28 3 David Pearson John Masoni Pontiac 400 600 (965.606) 529 111.633 Report [16]
1962 May 27 29 Nelson Stacy Holman-Moody Ford 400 600 (965.606) 4:46:44 125.552 Report [17]
1963 June 2* 28 Fred Lorenzen Holman-Moody Ford 400 600 (965.606) 452 132.417 Report [18]
1964 May 24 41 Jim Paschal Petty Enterprises Plymouth 400 600 (965.606) 4:46:14 125.772 Report [19]
1965 May 23 28 Fred Lorenzen Holman-Moody Ford 400 600 (965.606) 4:55:38 121.722 Report [20]
1966 May 22 42 Marvin Panch Petty Enterprises Plymouth 400 600 (965.606) 435 135.042 Report [21]
1967 May 28 14 Jim Paschal Frieden Enterprises Plymouth 400 600 (965.606) 4:25:02 135.832 Report [22]
1968 May 26 3 Buddy Baker Ray Fox Dodge 255* 382.5 (615.574) 3:04:14 104.207 Report [23]
1969 May 25 98 LeeRoy Yarbrough Junior Johnson & Associates Mercury 400 600 (965.606) 456 134.361 Report [24]
1970 May 24 27 Donnie Allison Banjo Matthews Ford 400 600 (965.606) 436 129.68 Report [25]