[badcoupe]

They must be really close to track and run a small truck to get by on 48 on truck fuel. I can’t run my f250 to circle city or the burg for that much worth out a trailer, closest two tracks to me. Depending on what you do spend on a motor and averaged out over laps I could the price being better or way worse. Figure valve springs alone every handful of races cost close to 1k for some decent but nothing special units. Overhead cam setups are easier on valve guides but nearly as hard on springs. The springs have to be much smaller diameter for ohc systems but not much less stiff. There aren’t really any ohc options out there either. LS or gen 3 hemi would really be the only alternatives, both pushrods. Coyote ford would be the other which is overhead cam but small displacement.

[Charles Nungester]

Originally Posted by badcoupe They must be really close to track and run a small truck to get by on 48 on truck fuel. I can’t run my f250 to circle city or the burg for that much worth out a trailer, closest two tracks to me. Depending on what you do spend on a motor and averaged out over laps I could the price being better or way worse. Figure valve springs alone every handful of races cost close to 1k for some decent but nothing special units. Overhead cam setups are easier on valve guides but nearly as hard on springs. The springs have to be much smaller diameter for ohc systems but not much less stiff. There aren’t really any ohc options out there either. LS or gen 3 hemi would really be the only alternatives, both pushrods. Coyote ford would be the other which is overhead cam but small displacement.

But that's what Im saying. Get rid of the 410 limit (The running joke is a million to develop every ten HP) internal cam and stack injection rules. with a compression limit it would open up the motor world ten fold and cost half as much, both for motor and rebuilds because some of it would probably be OEM stuff like rods. Pistons. Heads.

I know several are using LS in pavement sprints. Not sure which.

[Rpracing1]

[Frank Reiner]

The fishing must be very, very good; you're going to be out on that lake a long, long time considering how large a can of worms you are opening by talking about changes to engine rules!
What reduces engine costs? Very restricted specifications, and hence, power.

[Charles Nungester]

Originally Posted by Frank Reiner The fishing must be very, very good; you're going to be out on that lake a long, long time considering how large a can of worms you are opening by talking about changes to engine rules! What reduces engine costs? Very restricted specifications, and hence, power.

Easily provable the racing can be just as good.

TAKE THE WINGS OFF THEM RACE SAVERS GET 20 drivers willing to do it.
RACE!

[TQ97]

I’ve posted on the costs before for our small local non wing team. It takes every bit of $1500 a night to unload the car. Everyone’s travel and engine costs are different I suppose but mine is more than what was posted in this thread. I estimate $80 of diesel, as most tracks we run are an hour and a half away roughly. I budget engine costs at $500 per night. There is no paid help and the car is in my garage so I don’t count any of that.

The easiest way to save costs and not make everyone incur costs with engine rule changes, is to make the rear tires hard as bricks and not have performance fall off. These new tires are better than what they were and budget racers like ourselves can flip them as well. We can get 2-3 nights out of a RR if the track was decent but the performance is definitely better their first night.

Just a random comment that I bet the average fan doesn’t know. At local shows most tracks pay the same to finish 10th as they do 20th and the incremental increases up to the top 3 are pretty small. For instance, at one place 8th pays $20 more than 20th, and 5th pays $80 more than 20th. So it’s really hard for the car to help pay the bills, unless you’re running top 3 every night with a couple wins sprinkled in. Below are the stats from someone who most would say is a top 5 local driver and has 3 non local starts (usac/boss/mwts) where payout might be a bit more. Barring disaster he finishes top 10 every night locally, and 2/3 of the time he’s in the top 5. They’re averaging $550 a night that’s covering their fuel, 1 tire, and their pit passes.

Races: 21
Wins: 1
Top 5: 13
Top 10: 17
Payout: $11,550

[The Old Coyote]

Great summary, TQ97, thank you.

Speaking as a fan with no dog in the fight, so to say, it is my opinion that racing is, always has been and always will be expensive. No matter what level, from Formula One to Hornets, when the sanctioning body makes a rules change to "reduce costs", the overall costs rise as the teams with the most resources spends money to maintain their advantage. That is just how it is and, as a fan, I appreciate all those who give it their all. It is a David and Goliath sport and that is why I love to see a little guy like Trey Osborne or the 4p team, (Peterson?), come rolling in with a pick up pulling an open trailer to do battle with Goliath! Not to signal out those two teams, but all the others who lay it on the line doing something they love. Their passion is what I love to watch and I am forever thankful for the that passion.

[Charles Nungester]

My dog is No cars, No dog.

Gotta find someway to breakup the sprint clubs Three 305s, Two 360s. three LS's and for the elite few who are shrinking in number. combining resources to keep one team not two or three they used to running. INTO A BIGGER FIELD OF ALL SPRINT CARS. The best setup and notebook is almost always going to run up front. They kinda proved that by taking the shock adjusters out of the cockpit for a year.

All I want is this sport to continue and if it can. thrive. Im not seeing this and all I can do is OPINE. Right or wrong I may be.

[Rpracing1]

Originally Posted by Charles Nungester My dog is No cars, No dog. Gotta find someway to breakup the sprint clubs Three 305s, Two 360s. three LS's and for the elite few who are shrinking in number. combining resources to keep one team not two or three they used to running. INTO A BIGGER FIELD OF ALL SPRINT CARS. The best setup and notebook is almost always going to run up front. They kinda proved that by taking the shock adjusters out of the cockpit for a year. All I want is this sport to continue and if it can. thrive. Im not seeing this and all I can do is OPINE. Right or wrong I may be.

50 USAC sprints last Friday and Saturday is bad counts? Exactly how many cars you want for a good show?

High 40's a few weeks back for Maverick for 4 continuous nights?

TSS 40 Late Models with 30 sumthin Mods this past Sunday night on CST also.........You saying these are bad numbers?...........

Not seeing your vision......

[Z-man]

Im betting that an increase in revenues at the track would help increase revenue for the car owners. What are the odds of that happening? Don’t need slower cars. Any track rent garage space at the track? Local driver wouldn't have to tow every week or even own a hauler. Alcohol advertising was a big deal at the tracks, don’t seem to see much of that anymore. With the bizillion craft breweries popping up everywhere surprised to not see cars with these sponsors. And last but not least with the pending legalization of marijuana in all 50 states the race track would be a good place to advertise, ive never smelled weed at the track before. Maybe the racing alcohol could be made from hemp. Im sure i have no idea what the solution would be to make racing more affordable but slower cars are not, ill watch cars drive down the interstate faster.