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BMARA engine rules are now D-II
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1/15/15, 2:17 PM |
#101
Re: BMARA engine rules are now D-II
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Senior Member
Race Count This Year: 19 Race Count Last Year: 22 Join Date: Jul 2011 Posts: 2,259 |
Excellent post Brad, especially the concern over added weight; for the sake of flogging my own dead horse, allow me to throw a couple of real-world scenarios out there, the two I know the most about (with a couple of ideas on what to call us). I am only skimming the high points of the rules:
Scenario 1: Montpelier. Open Midgets (I kinda like that vs. "National"): 1,050 lbs., 12" tire max on 10" rim max. (all cars, open tire, limit one RR per night) Spec/Stock Midgets (better than D-II/Sportsman? Maybe...): No minimum weight, 12" tire, 10" rim. Moto-Midgets (Still needs work): No minimum weight, 12" tire but a 12" rim. Chain & Shaft allowed. This formula may not be ideal (what is?) but so far all of the competitors seem to be all right with it; the Open Motors usually dominate but you see Focus/Ecotec and the occasional M/C powerplants up in the mix (not me, yet, but maybe this year...). Scenario 2. IMRA: Open Midgets: Disallowed Stock/Spec: 1100lbs, Semi-spec tire, 10" rim Motorcyle Power: 925lbs. same tire rule, 12" rim. Chain only. As much as I love Montpelier's minimalistic, y'all come approach, this may be, in my opinion, the best of all worlds. the reason I say this is judging by the one time I've raced with IMRA and the videos/race reports I've read, the competition is close, fierce and exciting between the two seemingly disparate groups with both configurations winning their fair share, and without the need for artificial inhibitors like intake restrictions or bolt-on weight. People like to talk about what a "traditional" midget is, but if you go all the way back to the origins of the sport fields were full of all kinds of setups; V8-60's, Offies, Elto outboards, J.A.P. v-twins (chain-driven), Harley-based Drakes, tractor engines and they were all midgets. Maybe it's OK to be just a little bit different, and still be the same...
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Jim Jones
Midwest Thunder Speed2 Midget #97
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Last edited by jjones752; 1/15/15 at 2:21 PM. |
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1/15/15, 2:19 PM | #102 | ||
Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2008 Posts: 979 |
Too bad this didn't happen about 8 years ago when it should have been done. It may be too late now but hopefully it works. Let's get real about car counts, though. IMRA doesn't get 40-50 cars. They, and IRS average 13-19 most of the time. IMRA had a high count somewhere in the low 20's and low of 7 last year. That being said, if some form of this engine package became the "National" rules, those numbers would likely go up. I think they should keep it as stock as possible or they will end up costing too much again. If there is a larger size such as 3.0-3.5 that would be faster and could still be stock. They need to do away with a lot of chassis stuff too that midgets don't need. Titanium, carbon fiber and fancy shocks should all be banned. We ran a $55 steel shock on our car and it worked great!
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1/15/15, 2:45 PM |
#103
Re: BMARA engine rules are now D-II
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Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2011 Posts: 377 |
Quote:
I like your direction on the tire deal open it up , I would put a cap on the cost say $ 125 per tire as long as it is available to all & you start the main on the tire you qualify on , this was done for a year or two in CRA back in the 80's IIRC |
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1/15/15, 6:54 PM | #104 | ||
Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2008 Posts: 980 |
I always have the nagging question of if it's the way to go then why haven't they been successful in terms of large car counts for the efforts that have been or are currently in place? Will the higher purses be the tipping point or will the competition raise the costs of these motors to the 15 to 20 grand range and make the people mad again? What concerns me too is as big as this thread is or the debate itself is.....I see very few people who are actually involved in the sport or are planning on being a part of it commenting. To me....if we are not using a purpose built engine then why not just make them like Kenyon cars and use a cheaper motor yet with a clutch and starter? I'm afraid people are thinking that will get a 200 motor put 2000 grand in it and your going to have something as reliable and produce as much performance as the current motors and that just isn't going to happen
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Last edited by LEADERS EDGE; 1/15/15 at 7:34 PM. |
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1/15/15, 8:18 PM |
#105
Re: BMARA engine rules are now D-II
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Member
Join Date: Jan 2013 Posts: 96 |
First let me say I'm all for the BMARA motor direction. Speaking as one who raced at Angell Park back in the day (long time ago) with a VW we were seriously out powered. Who ever would said horsepower doen't matter never been in the under horsepowered car. I just wish this would have happened much sooner.. I have a 1000cc chain drive car and believe I could compete with this rule if the would allow it..
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1/15/15, 9:20 PM | #106 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2008 Posts: 980 |
Ok....why don't you sell your current car and get the new package? What price would get you into it?
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1/15/15, 9:39 PM |
#107
Re: BMARA engine rules are now D-II
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Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2009 Posts: 5,955 |
Quote:
Angle Park is not your typical small size Bull Ring!!! HP rules. A 1000cc midget is more than competitive with an Echo-tec. To convert your car to echo tec if your old motor lays down would require the motor plate motor and drive line. They share the same chassis even your bird cages will work with a quick change. Considering the cost of late model bike engines it might not be too big of a jump for you. An interesting note, the radiator on most 1000cc cars must be larger than what a midget would run with. Those extra BTU's says something about performance. Honest Dad himself
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Last edited by DAD; 1/15/15 at 9:54 PM. |
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1/15/15, 10:17 PM |
#108
Re: BMARA engine rules are now D-II
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2014 Posts: 569 |
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You really hit the nail on the head with this bit of information.... Speaking from experience actually.... I come from winged sprint cars, my dad ran them, I went to every race, dreamed of racing them one day etc. Come my teenage years, dad didn't want me in a sprint car, he wanted me to stay away from racing and go to college/graduate college..... In comes drifting- closest thing I could get to sliding around a dirt oval, so I spend every dime I had on a 95 240sx and drifted it at track events and built it into a REALLY nice car over the course of two years. Come last year, I was financially stable enough to look back into dirt racing (also my friend got a midget to run with Waynes series), so I went and listed all of my drifting stuff for sale and am just finishing up building my midget (new triple X with a 2.4 ecotec.... Whole car with NICE components (brand new frame, DMI driveline, Reddevil brakes, etc etc) with the MWR Ecotec cost me right about $19,000..... That's cheap ENOUGH for a college student such as myself to be able to afford as far as up front entry costs go, and they are cheap enough to race every other weekend on a college budget. Case in point- yes, drifting was cheap enough that most kids (16-25) can afford to go and build a car and track it on the weekends.... If midgets such as the "D2" (2.4l) cars become popular across the nation I really think car counts would increase substantially.... Its worth noting, "kids" talk..... My friend got a "D2" midget, I saw the costs involved and immediately sold my drifting stuff to do it, and then his stepbrother ended up getting a car as well..... 3 new cars within a year from one "group" isn't bad..... |
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1/16/15, 12:05 AM | #109 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2008 Posts: 980 |
Were the drift events for paying fans? I only ask because the ones I have seen on TV were corporate sponsored events that were free to attend. Will fans come to see these cars is a huge question that will have to be answered quickly as well because there aren't any corporate sponsors at the moment to carry that load. Tracks have to have fans. Not saying they won't....but 35 to 40 cars in front of empty grandstands won't work for the tracks.
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1/16/15, 8:40 AM | #110 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2014 Posts: 569 |
We (drivers) paid $50 to drift all day or entry for the competition day and spectators paid $10 to get in and watch.
I can promise you the ones you watch on tv (most likely formula drift) that was corporate sponsored was still not free. I've been to those events going on 5 years now and they are typically about $35-40 entry fee AND a $10 parking pass... And their crows are ALWAYS huge. |
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BMARA engine rules are now D-II
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