More Midget Races Cancelled

DonMoore10 · 9/13/11, 11:30 PM

Thanks for the great info. If we could get past "that's the way it's always been done" we may get somewhere. I own four exotic midget engines and I'm ready to move on to a new day in midget racing. We need to get this done. Not $22,000, not $15,000 but somewhere between $10-12K. not a penny more.

Revolution Racing · 9/14/11, 10:36 AM

BTW, for what it's worth I do happen to agree with your opinion on cost of purchase. $10 to $12 grand for the whole engine package, Three years of racing with no internal maintenance, change the plugs once per year just for the heck of it and maybe the oil every 8 races or so just so you look like you are doing something. That is what I tell my guys who are running the standard RRE ECOtec, and aside from the time it saves them, here is what it means:

It means that you can run 6th at a $1,000 to win race, and make expeses for the night.

It means that if you are taking good care of your car, using your head on the track, and running halfway decent, you can make enough money in winnings to just about cover your operating expenses (on dirt). When was the last time you ever heard somebody say THAT? Ask Rick Young in California, or Tim Fenton in Oklahoma, or Richard Kriesel in Missouri if you would like to verify this.

At the end of all of this discussion, isn't this what we are all really talking about? The ability to own and operate a Midget, without help from a big sponsor (because they are all gone), and without spending a great deal of your own money (because you no longer have a great deal of your own money)? Again, I know there are guys out there who are doing this with a Gearte or a Fontana and to those guys I say 'God Bless You', but we all can see that there just are not enough of "those guys" - individuals with the know-how and the time - to make a good field of cars. What I have designed and produced is nothing more that another way to put competitors on the track without costing them too much in time or money. Thanks again for the opportunity to speak on this.

Keith Iaia
Revolution Racing Engines
805-238-3930

Roy Bleckert · 9/14/11, 11:06 AM

I agree with the concept that Midgets should be affordable to the avg. dude who carries a lunch pail to work

Keith's engine package is part of the solution

Also allowing production Car & Motorcycle engines that the junk yards have by the gazillions & can be turned into a competitive Midget engine for 4 - 10 K is part of the solution

Also getting a Brand new Roller Midget for 10 K or less needs to be part of the solution

A Brand new Midget Roller for 10,000 $ a production based engine for 5,000 $

A brand new Midget complete for 15,000 , now you have a car the avg. working dude can afford

Which is going to increase Car Count , more cars will translate into more fans , the rule of thumb is each car will bring in at least 20 fans just on the peeps that know or assoc with the driver/car owner

Increase in car & fan count makes promoters happy

The Big ? is How do you make this Happen

Not the 27 million reasons that you can not do it

TQ29m · 9/14/11, 11:40 AM

For what it's worth, sounds like some sort of future might be waiting to happen. I think most of us that actually own an open wheel race car, will admit, that whether it be a TQ, a full midget, a sprint car, or even a mini-sprint, the cost to the consumer for a roller, is within a few bucks of each other, a sprint car may be a bit cheaper, due to the numbers that are built, and the number of builders, but, the big difference, is what you choose to put under the hood, and to be quite honest, it has been the midget, that scores the highest in cost, in my HO, again, due to the number of suppliers, and availability of parts, more parts sold, less money per part. Now, while I sort of agree with the 10-12k engine cost, how about something a guy and his buddy's can build themselves, from engines currently residing in salvage yards. Again, I haven't researched the aftermarket scene for rods, pistons, cams and etc, but this does give another avenue to the light at the end of the tunnel. With the used market being somewhat on the low side, for midget rollers, even a few more back on the race track, will be a big help, in rekindeling the midget fire. As I recall, a full blooded, fire breathing midget from the past, wasn't cheap then, what with all the special engines being built, an Offy was almost a must have, and before that, all the custom engines that were uncorked, the Fronty Ford, the Chevy headed A engines, the Jiggler OHV conversion, I remember walking into Nugent Auto Supply, and hearing their machinist ranting over how in the hell, am I supposed to keep these damn valve seats from coming out, and he did it almost on a weekly basis. Anyway, other than the V8-60, and later some of the Chev ll, and 215 V8's, and some variation of the many V6's that GM produced, there really hasn't been anything, mass produced enough, to make midget racing less expensive, than a sprint car. I'd like to see something done, that could be available to the guy that just plain loves midget racing, to allow him to budget for an engine, that he could afford, to buy, and put in a roller he's found, and then have others to race with, and a place to race it. It seems that so few are interested in anything but the elite end of this tunnel, that they can't see what is happening to the big picture, Solar, and Kurtis flooded the market with car kits in the years right after WWll, and affordable engines could be built, so that a guy could race 5-6 nights a week, and actually make a living at it, now it seems this type of car, is headed for a trophy case somewhere. Just dreamin! Bob!

Roy Bleckert · 9/14/11, 12:39 PM

@ Bob I do not think you are dreamin , It can Happen if Car Owners/Drivers & Promoters/Race Track operators will sit down & have some honest discussion on the subject

I will admit history has shown that this has been difficult in the past

Maybe now with the situation the way it is now both sides can come to the table with a clean sheet of paper & work towards a positive solution that works for every one involved Fans, Sponsors, Manufactures, Promoters & Car Owners/Drivers

TQ29m · 9/14/11, 1:24 PM

As a side note, the 215 cu in V8 is still in production, what a lite that would be, and the V860 was still in production in the mid 50's, Ford did what GM did, they gave/sold/donated the patterns, the drawings, everything to Simca, and they continued to build the Ford V860, by then it had been stroked a 1/4", and the Hp was 100, and Simca was selling them in new cars, a friend of mine, in TX, found one, in a junk yard, about a year ago. Of course the Land Rover, I believe, is and has been producing the "old Buick" 215 for a long time, "just sayin"! Bob!

DonMoore10 · 9/14/11, 1:26 PM

This thread is now approaching 167 posts and nearly 12,000 hits. And just about every post has been civil and on topic. This may be a milestone on IOW. This speaks to the seriousness of this discussion. I can tell all of you that there is a 100% chance that the brain trust that makes the decisions about the future of midget racing is reading every word on here. I will go back to my first post again, quoting the president of the United States Auto Club from an internet radio program two years ago, endorsing the $10-12,000 engine. We've lost ground in the last 24 months, race fans and midget org executives. The present model is not working. It would be enlightening to hear from the midget orgs regarding what the plans are for the future.

TQ29m · 9/14/11, 1:34 PM

That "modern" 215/with factory FI, and all the tuning possibilities of the on board computer, might just be too much "fire", for a short wheelbase, 1050# car, but it sure could be inexpensive, for a while at least. That would surely make the tire bill go up! Bob!

Roy Bleckert · 9/14/11, 1:48 PM

@ DonMoore10 " And just about every post has been civil and on topic. This may be a milestone on IOW. This speaks to the seriousness of this discussion."

Which makes me think now is the time for every one involved to work hard at coming up with a equitable solution for Midget Racing

---------- Post added at 10:48 AM ---------- Previous post was at 10:39 AM ----------

Quote:

Originally Posted by TQ29m

That "modern" 215/with factory FI, and all the tuning possibilities of the on board computer, might just be too much "fire", for a short wheelbase, 1050# car, but it sure could be inexpensive, for a while at least. That would surely make the tire bill go up! Bob!

Whether you agree or disagree with this engine , this is the type of thinking that needs to be brought to the table

BTW I think its a great idea

& there is a Tradition of Innovation in Midget Racing Back in the Day

http://www.trackforum.com/forums/sho...Midget-engines

Midget engines

There was a time that you could see the following engines in midgets.
1. Offy
2. ChevyII
3. VW
4. V8/60
5. Buick 215
6. Falcon 6
7. Corvair
8. Sesco inline Chev
9. Sesco V4 Chev
10. Sesco inline Ford
11. Sesco V8 Suzuki
12. Chev V6

TQ29m · 9/14/11, 3:39 PM

Only to mention a few, and who'd forget the "ELTO", no one that ever raced with one, the "Drake", 2 cyl, but there are a lot of "current" engines, that if enough people of interest, would just get together, on a "box" to work from, and allow everything that met those qualifications, the days of building your own creation, might just spark some renewed interest, in a "do it yourself" race car, and still not be a "spec" class, or a rule of tire class, just good ole down home "brewin". I'm past doing anything, other than what I currently do, but hopefully someone will be able to. I still have 3-4 of the early 215's, both Buick and Old's, had a Hilligass car I was going to put one in, just for Vintage Racing, but time and money took that project away. Bob!

9/14/11, 11:40 AM	#164 Re: More Midget Races Cancelled
TQ29m Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2008 Posts: 6,433	For what it's worth, sounds like some sort of future might be waiting to happen. I think most of us that actually own an open wheel race car, will admit, that whether it be a TQ, a full midget, a sprint car, or even a mini-sprint, the cost to the consumer for a roller, is within a few bucks of each other, a sprint car may be a bit cheaper, due to the numbers that are built, and the number of builders, but, the big difference, is what you choose to put under the hood, and to be quite honest, it has been the midget, that scores the highest in cost, in my HO, again, due to the number of suppliers, and availability of parts, more parts sold, less money per part. Now, while I sort of agree with the 10-12k engine cost, how about something a guy and his buddy's can build themselves, from engines currently residing in salvage yards. Again, I haven't researched the aftermarket scene for rods, pistons, cams and etc, but this does give another avenue to the light at the end of the tunnel. With the used market being somewhat on the low side, for midget rollers, even a few more back on the race track, will be a big help, in rekindeling the midget fire. As I recall, a full blooded, fire breathing midget from the past, wasn't cheap then, what with all the special engines being built, an Offy was almost a must have, and before that, all the custom engines that were uncorked, the Fronty Ford, the Chevy headed A engines, the Jiggler OHV conversion, I remember walking into Nugent Auto Supply, and hearing their machinist ranting over how in the hell, am I supposed to keep these damn valve seats from coming out, and he did it almost on a weekly basis. Anyway, other than the V8-60, and later some of the Chev ll, and 215 V8's, and some variation of the many V6's that GM produced, there really hasn't been anything, mass produced enough, to make midget racing less expensive, than a sprint car. I'd like to see something done, that could be available to the guy that just plain loves midget racing, to allow him to budget for an engine, that he could afford, to buy, and put in a roller he's found, and then have others to race with, and a place to race it. It seems that so few are interested in anything but the elite end of this tunnel, that they can't see what is happening to the big picture, Solar, and Kurtis flooded the market with car kits in the years right after WWll, and affordable engines could be built, so that a guy could race 5-6 nights a week, and actually make a living at it, now it seems this type of car, is headed for a trophy case somewhere. Just dreamin! Bob! __________________ "Being old, isn't half as much fun, as getting there"! Ole Robert I!

9/14/11, 1:24 PM	#166 Re: More Midget Races Cancelled
TQ29m Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2008 Posts: 6,433	As a side note, the 215 cu in V8 is still in production, what a lite that would be, and the V860 was still in production in the mid 50's, Ford did what GM did, they gave/sold/donated the patterns, the drawings, everything to Simca, and they continued to build the Ford V860, by then it had been stroked a 1/4", and the Hp was 100, and Simca was selling them in new cars, a friend of mine, in TX, found one, in a junk yard, about a year ago. Of course the Land Rover, I believe, is and has been producing the "old Buick" 215 for a long time, "just sayin"! Bob! __________________ "Being old, isn't half as much fun, as getting there"! Ole Robert I!

9/14/11, 1:34 PM	#168 Re: More Midget Races Cancelled
TQ29m Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2008 Posts: 6,433	That "modern" 215/with factory FI, and all the tuning possibilities of the on board computer, might just be too much "fire", for a short wheelbase, 1050# car, but it sure could be inexpensive, for a while at least. That would surely make the tire bill go up! Bob! __________________ "Being old, isn't half as much fun, as getting there"! Ole Robert I!

9/14/11, 3:39 PM	#170 Re: More Midget Races Cancelled
TQ29m Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2008 Posts: 6,433	Only to mention a few, and who'd forget the "ELTO", no one that ever raced with one, the "Drake", 2 cyl, but there are a lot of "current" engines, that if enough people of interest, would just get together, on a "box" to work from, and allow everything that met those qualifications, the days of building your own creation, might just spark some renewed interest, in a "do it yourself" race car, and still not be a "spec" class, or a rule of tire class, just good ole down home "brewin". I'm past doing anything, other than what I currently do, but hopefully someone will be able to. I still have 3-4 of the early 215's, both Buick and Old's, had a Hilligass car I was going to put one in, just for Vintage Racing, but time and money took that project away. Bob! __________________ "Being old, isn't half as much fun, as getting there"! Ole Robert I!

9/14/11, 10:36 AM	#162 Re: More Midget Races Cancelled
Revolution Racing Member Join Date: Jul 2008 Posts: 222	BTW, for what it's worth I do happen to agree with your opinion on cost of purchase. $10 to $12 grand for the whole engine package, Three years of racing with no internal maintenance, change the plugs once per year just for the heck of it and maybe the oil every 8 races or so just so you look like you are doing something. That is what I tell my guys who are running the standard RRE ECOtec, and aside from the time it saves them, here is what it means: It means that you can run 6th at a $1,000 to win race, and make expeses for the night. It means that if you are taking good care of your car, using your head on the track, and running halfway decent, you can make enough money in winnings to just about cover your operating expenses (on dirt). When was the last time you ever heard somebody say THAT? Ask Rick Young in California, or Tim Fenton in Oklahoma, or Richard Kriesel in Missouri if you would like to verify this. At the end of all of this discussion, isn't this what we are all really talking about? The ability to own and operate a Midget, without help from a big sponsor (because they are all gone), and without spending a great deal of your own money (because you no longer have a great deal of your own money)? Again, I know there are guys out there who are doing this with a Gearte or a Fontana and to those guys I say 'God Bless You', but we all can see that there just are not enough of "those guys" - individuals with the know-how and the time - to make a good field of cars. What I have designed and produced is nothing more that another way to put competitors on the track without costing them too much in time or money. Thanks again for the opportunity to speak on this. Keith Iaia Revolution Racing Engines 805-238-3930

9/14/11, 1:26 PM	#167 Re: More Midget Races Cancelled
DonMoore10 Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 1,474	This thread is now approaching 167 posts and nearly 12,000 hits. And just about every post has been civil and on topic. This may be a milestone on IOW. This speaks to the seriousness of this discussion. I can tell all of you that there is a 100% chance that the brain trust that makes the decisions about the future of midget racing is reading every word on here. I will go back to my first post again, quoting the president of the United States Auto Club from an internet radio program two years ago, endorsing the $10-12,000 engine. We've lost ground in the last 24 months, race fans and midget org executives. The present model is not working. It would be enlightening to hear from the midget orgs regarding what the plans are for the future.