The rumors were true!!!!!!!!!!!

Dirtfan · 10/15/12, 7:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wallsracing

Scrap the crown cars and put more money towards the usac sprint car series jmo

Remember this is coming from a "retired" bomber jockey.

mr nobody · 10/15/12, 7:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by B99

With the new contingency postings for 2013, Ignite Racing Ethanol will be the preferred fuel of the TRAXXAS Silver Crown series, but not mandated. Competitors may use Ignite Ethanol or traditional methanol fuels in the series.

Too bad we couldn't salvage 2012 with this stipulation but 2013 sure sounds like it might have a fighting chance of being something great.

I know of one car owner who parked his car strictly becasue of the ethanol. I hope that car owner comes back for 2013 and beyond.

Sprint63122 · 10/15/12, 11:19 PM

Advised one long time car owner who was walking the pits saturday night who did not participate this year about the fuel situation being taking care of he said good deal he will have his car back out next year.Hope that usac will get all of these car owners together and have a meeting about this and try to move things forward and rebuild the car count back up.

racephoto1 · 10/15/12, 11:51 PM

Boy , there are a lot of dreamers here when it comes to USAC. They didn't get involved with the owners when they nearly killed the division this year, if they already haven't. Now people want them involved in hopes they'll fix their screw up.

Look at history, they always try to close the barn door after the horse has already run off.

SC90 · 10/16/12, 3:22 AM

This is great news! Owners are finally given a choice about how they run their cars and teams. Woo Hoo! I can't imagine that I am the only owner who thinks this is a workable compromise to a challenging situation.

I'm so excited I can't contain myself. Hopefully I won't wake up and realize this is only a dream.

Sharon
USAC Silver Crown #90

767 · 10/16/12, 8:16 AM

In my experience, once an owner is gone, they rearly come back. I'm sure a few will return but if you think this series will be 30 cars deep next year, I need what your smoking!

TQ29m · 10/16/12, 9:37 AM

I have to agree to a certain extent, but, when they are told what to do, or find something else, that's a different horse. If, and it doesn't have to be USAC, they'll let the owners decide their own fate, I think most of them are savy enough to make a go of it. I've thought for years, the engine rule was kinda antiquated, they seem to have an above normal amount of engine problems, they all don't have access to the engines that Nascar builds on someone elses nickle, and to expect a 350cu in motor, do what it needs to do, and last a while, I feel that could be an incentive to build on, allow them to take advantage of some of the less costly parts, that will still take the abuse the get in 50 or 100 lap races, I don't see them outpricing themselves, when they have the control of the purse strings, and maybe they aren't real keen on running pavement, dirt is a lot easier on parts. JMHO, but I love em like they were, and that's the theme anyway. Bob

Revolution Racing · 10/16/12, 12:20 PM

I have watched this whole ethanol thing unfold with much interest. Maybe I missed something but I have yet to hear of anyone speaking to the heart of the problem with ethanol regarding open wheel race cars. Its not the fuel - its the cars! Now let me explain that. Mechanical fuel injection and methanol are a good match for each other and that combination has worked great for years, but have you ever seen somebody try to run a gasoline motor with a Hilborn fuel injector? It can be done, for sure, but its a LOT harder to keep a motor happy if its got mechanical F.I. and its on gasoline. The reason for that is that the 'sweet spot' with methanol is much broader that with gas. Methanol is a much 'slower' fuel and as such, you can be a lot farther off on your calibrations and still be in the ballpark. How many times have you guys changed a barrel valve setting or a bypass setting only to have the driver tell you he didn't think it made much difference? With gasoline, you don't get that kind of leeway.

Ethanol lies somewhere in between gas and methanol when it comes to this 'sweet spot' issue. The teams that have had success with ethanol are the ones with the ability to really be right on top of their fuel calibrations, with much more accuracy than they ever needed with methanol.

There is nothing 'wrong' with ethanol as a fuel (other than the fact that it's a really dumb way to make fuel....). I know there are some people reading this that don't want to hear it, but what has happened here is that we've put the cart before the horse. If we had engine management systems on open wheel cars - technology that has only been around for, say, the past 20 YEARS or so - instead of a fuel system from the 1950's, there would be absolutely no problem with running open wheel cars on ethanol, if that is what 16th Street decided we need to do.

Right now, today, I can run ethanol just fine in one of my ECOtec motors, and I can run methanol in the same motor without any problem at all. Could also run gasoline in it.

I'm not trying to sell anybody on anything (gave that up a while ago). I spent all of my gear-head life working on mechanical fuel injection - I honestly don't know how to work on a carburetor because I never have. I never dreamed I'd be going down this electronic path until I got hooked up with the guys at GM Racing, and they showed me what the possibilities are. I don't have a thing against mechanical F.I., I'm just pointing out that this sport has got some decisions to make, and those decisions have been put off for too long now.

DAD · 10/16/12, 8:27 PM

AMEN

When you say electronic engine management to someone used to mechanical injection they generally frown and say that stuff is way too complicated for me. These guys come to the race track with a bunch of pills to adjust for the weather. Air density gauges to be spot on, a bunch of springs, leak down gauges and years and years of know how. The old time auto mechanics did the same thing when Detroit first introduced electronic ignition and then the electronic fuel injection, it took about 5 years or so for them to understand it, now you couldn't get them to switch back for anything.

Old school racers then come up with the idea that the electronics are just too expensive. Injectors sell for between $75 to probably $175.00 each for injectors big enough to work on a 350 to 400 ci. motor on ethanol. The ECU will run about $1200.00 but it will also control the ignition system, that means no $1500.00 mags.

Now the expensive part come into play, it will probably take 4 to 8 hours on the dyno to dial the thing in, but once you have done that the thing will do most of the day to day race day tune for you. No gauges no wich doctor vodo or anthing it will simply make adjustments as needed and stay spot on.

So yeh ----I agree with Revolution Racing if you have them run ethanol let them run an electronic injection fuel management system and many of their problems will simply just go away. Mechanical injection like carburetors has seen it's day come and go.

Two valve engine is also old old technology. A very mild 4 valve motor will run off and hide from a very unreliable over worked and over tuned 2 valve 57 year old motor, and the 4 valve motor would last forever. Wonder it that would get more people racing again?

Honest Dad himself

dansprint · 10/16/12, 9:18 PM

When they talk of Ethanol being used as a race fuel, are they talking about a fuel blend like E85? ie 85%ETHANOL 15%GASOLINE or are they talking a 100% ethanol or like a methyl alcohol 95%Ethanol 5%Methanol blend?

100% Ethanol is pure alcohol. The same type of alcohol that is found in all our alcoholic beverages. Surely they would have to denature the fuel somehow to stop people using it in the wrong way?
Methylated Spirits (Methyl Alcohol) in a sense is denatured with 5% methanol, to stop the cheap alcohol being consumed.

Ethanol is produced from fermenting grains and sugars.
Methanol is produced from fermenting woods and therfore toxic for consumption

10/16/12, 9:37 AM	#17 Re: The rumors were true!!!!!!!!!!!
TQ29m Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2008 Posts: 6,388	I have to agree to a certain extent, but, when they are told what to do, or find something else, that's a different horse. If, and it doesn't have to be USAC, they'll let the owners decide their own fate, I think most of them are savy enough to make a go of it. I've thought for years, the engine rule was kinda antiquated, they seem to have an above normal amount of engine problems, they all don't have access to the engines that Nascar builds on someone elses nickle, and to expect a 350cu in motor, do what it needs to do, and last a while, I feel that could be an incentive to build on, allow them to take advantage of some of the less costly parts, that will still take the abuse the get in 50 or 100 lap races, I don't see them outpricing themselves, when they have the control of the purse strings, and maybe they aren't real keen on running pavement, dirt is a lot easier on parts. JMHO, but I love em like they were, and that's the theme anyway. Bob __________________ "Being old, isn't half as much fun, as getting there"! Ole Robert I!