[torqueball]

The Hans device isn't perfect, but its a start. I'm not one to say I love wearing it, but its mandated. No matter what we do sprintcars will always be dangerous. Im just thankful that we've come this far. If not a lot of us wouldn't still be here.

As an old time car owner once told me "back in the day there were bold drivers and old drivers, but no bold-old drivers"

Danny Holtsclaw

[Tim Clauson]

Originally Posted by RacinJason Why should a device that causes injuries be acceptable? I've heard many people make the statement a broken collar bone is better than a broken neck. You know what would be even better? A piece of safety equipment that doesn't injure you. That's the one I would want. All the it saved his life statements are getting old too. There is no proof that the device actually saved a life. Period! Did it possibly stop some injuries? Maybe but no proof of that either. There is proof however of injuries caused by them. I'm not saying you shouldn't wear one. If you want to and feel safe go for it. I do not want injuries from it. The driver should have the choice... .

Not sure of what kind of proof would satisfy you. If sitting in Dr. Trammels office dissecting MRI's looking at the angles of the injuries and looking at how the Hans reacted in the accident based on video and reinactment(sp) and having him conclude that in all probability the Hans did its job and with out it being paralized (sp) or worse would of been the likely outcome was proof enough for me.

Tim Clauson

[KRJoyce1]

Originally Posted by sprint 98j I have had 3 close friends killed in sprints. All with their Hans on. And none killed with out. I I know one died as a result of this life saving wonder (Sarcasm) and I think it contributed to one other. If you use one you have to have a sternum strap other wise you body will crumple and con form to the shoulder straps thru loss of actual on the body tightness. I know we really don't like them at all. They also restrict rotation helmet movement enough you can see around you well enough causing more incidents. May be OK at big tracks but a quality collar is better in the bull rings.

If you would like to come by my booth at the Indy State Fair Grounds this weekend, I would gladly take the time to talk to you and educate you about the Hans Device. The words you speak here about it CAUSING Death, and Causing Crashes due to reduced visibility are due to you getting some bad info.

Tell me how that Quality Collar is going to keep the base of your brain from extending and separation from your spinal cord if you hit a solid object and go from lets say 50mph to 0 in a split second. A 50mph delta Z impact is quite possible in a "small bullring".......

Also, the improper use or location of a sternum strap, with a Hans can cause more problems due to riding to high on the chest, and then creating a close line during an impact when the body slides forward on the belts....Not pretty, and yes THAT would cause death.

I have been involved with the testing and development of the Hans since 2000. Is it perfect no......BUT I have talked to more drivers this past season that would not strap into a car with out one then not.

The most common error I see is the improper location of the shoulder belts when mounted to the cage. This can cause the belts to slip off, in a flip. However, as people get better informed, follow the installation directions, and take the proper steps in mounting the belts, they do no have that issue. Also, if they incorporate a way to stop the belts from sliding outboard, from the correct position on the cross brace they are mounting too, they will greatly reduce the chance of the belts ever coming off the Hans.

Drivers were not big fans of the Full Face Helmet in the early 70's either, but look at that progress...........

Ken Joyce

Originally Posted by Tim Clauson Not sure of what kind of proof would satisfy you. If sitting in Dr. Trammels office dissecting MRI's looking at the angles of the injuries and looking at how the Hans reacted in the accident based on video and reinactment(sp) and having him conclude that in all probability the Hans did its job and with out it being paralized (sp) or worse would of been the likely outcome was proof enough for me. Tim Clauson

Spoken from a father, whose son's life was saved by the HANS.

Best post I've read in a LONG, LONG time on this board.

[cecil98]

When you think about it, this a ridiculous debate. We're arguing over a hans device and sprintcar safety when, there they are, four nice big fat wheels completely exposed with 8 to 24 other cars on the same track running between 100-150mph on any given night. What causes a vast majority of crashes in sprints and midgets? OPEN WHEELS coming in contact with the open wheels of another car. Now, if you all are concerned about safety, explain to me why there is no outcry for enclosing the wheels. If everyone was truly concerned about safety, it makes no sense to allow openwheel racing in any form. USAC should take the lead and mandate wheel enclosures for all divisions. This would be the single greatest safety measure any sanctioning body could demand. You'all with me on this? Instead of petitioning on behalf of saving THAT, lets start a petition to USAC for an actual sensible safety measure. No Open Wheels anymore.

PS.......as far as safety at Terre Haute? I would gladly trade in our HANS device to get rid of those deadly concrete slabs they replaced the guardrail with (simply for the sake of saving time in running the show off-ala no guard rail repairs needed after a crash). Why don't the sanctioning bodies demand something be done there?

Originally Posted by cecil98 PS.......as far as safety at Terre Haute? I would gladly trade in our HANS device to get rid of those deadly concrete slabs they replaced the guardrail with (simply for the sake of saving time in running the show off-ala no guard rail repairs needed after a crash). Why don't the sanctioning bodies demand something be done there?

How do you manage to wake up in the morning and tie your shoes?

Was it a goal at your racetrack to kill a driver a night?

[RacinJason]

Originally Posted by cecil98 When you think about it, this a ridiculous debate. We're arguing over a hans device and sprintcar safety when, there they are, four nice big fat wheels completely exposed with 8 to 24 other cars on the same track running between 100-150mph on any given night. What causes a vast majority of crashes in sprints and midgets? OPEN WHEELS coming in contact with the open wheels of another car. Now, if you all are concerned about safety, explain to me why there is no outcry for enclosing the wheels. If everyone was truly concerned about safety, it makes no sense to allow openwheel racing in any form. USAC should take the lead and mandate wheel enclosures for all divisions. This would be the single greatest safety measure any sanctioning body could demand. You'all with me on this? Instead of petitioning on behalf of saving THAT, lets start a petition to USAC for an actual sensible safety measure. No Open Wheels anymore. PS.......as far as safety at Terre Haute? I would gladly trade in our HANS device to get rid of those deadly concrete slabs they replaced the guardrail with (simply for the sake of saving time in running the show off-ala no guard rail repairs needed after a crash). Why don't the sanctioning bodies demand something be done there?

I still wonder if you took the Hans away, and the arm restraints, and the roll bar too how many wheels would be ran over? Would drivers use their heads a little more???



.

[cecil98]

How do you manage to wake up in the morning and tie your shoes?
Was it a goal at your racetrack to kill a driver a night?...NJDMONEY

Ok, I'll plead dumb on this one. What exactly is the point you're trying to make with the above quote???????

[zeroracer]

NJDMONEY

I dont know what your issue is, but i really don't appriciate the immature comments....

I think racers have the right to choice END OF STORY. I know bryan and I am glad he was wearing one if it is indeed what saved his life. All I am saying is that I want to be able to make the choice for myself most drivers understand that when you strap into a racecar they are taking risks with there lives that is part of the sport, but i dont think devices like this should be forced down our throats by you and people like you. I think it is rediculous that every time a comment is made you dont agree with you call someone an ***** or dumb. And I would like it if you would try to broaden your horizons to understand that not everyone agrees that they are the only way to save lives with safety equipment.

Its like the matter that drivers can run a bent piece of aluminum for a seat but if he has a hans and two window nets he can race???? THAT MAKES SENSE!!??

Make a full containment seat mandatory and the device optional... thats my OPINION LIKE IT OR NOT!!!!

KRJoyce- Will you be at the Swap Meet all day Saturday because if so I really would like to talk to you about alternatives, or possible fixes to certain problems

[Bluteam]

Originally Posted by KRJoyce1 Also, the improper use or location of a sternum strap, with a Hans can cause more problems due to riding to high on the chest, and then creating a close line during an impact when the body slides forward on the belts....Not pretty, and yes THAT would cause death. Ken Joyce

Ken - can you elaborate on this a little further. My son uses the HANS - with a neck collar. He's very small, so everything fits fine with no discomfort. But, against the wishes of our belt manufacturer, I insist on a sternum strap. Reason being, I'm afraid of the belts slipping off the HANS.

As I said - he's small. 115 pounds soaking wet. We have the shoulder belts mounted on the frame in such a fashion to keep them from spreading out. Your concern echos the belt manufacturer, yet I have a difficult time understanding how a properly tightened lap belt and sub strap would allow a submarining affect. If a shoulder belt were to break, allowing the sternum strap to create the clothes line effect, than I would think serious consequences are in order anyway.

Not trying to be difficult. Just a concerned parent wanting to learn more and understand all of it so I know I've done everything possible short of telling him no to his dreams.

Thanks,
Ted Hartman