Kevin Miller Tonight Racin' with D.O. @ Kelly's Pub

Sandy Lowe · 5/13/08, 8:40 PM

Lucas Oil Late Models - May 16 at Farley Iowa

$10,000 to win - $35 pit pass - $100 entry fee

Grandstands:
$25 adult - $20 senior - $20 13 to 18 - kids 12 and under free with paying adult

World of Outlaw Late Models - May 16 at Attica Raceway Park
$10,000 to win - $35 pit pass - entry fee ???

Grandstands:
$30 adult - $15 students 11 to 15 - kids 10 and under free

I will be the first to admit that I know nothing about late models (except a whole lot of them like to run the same numbers). I don't know what the rest of the purse is, what the format is, if you have to pay a fee to race with them if you are not a member, etc.

But I do know they race for a heck of a lot more money than the USAC sprints do. Why?

riskybrisky5 · 5/13/08, 8:52 PM

Yes Sandy they do race for alot more money than we do. I also do not know their purse. But I would assume that everyone that particpates would recieve some prize money. I know for sure that Woo sprint car races there are no entry fees. They also pay everyone that shows up and pay big show up money to their top 10 to 20 drivers. I would not have complained as much about the entry fee if I would have recieved money for participating. But I still believe entry fees are wrong.
Also Sandy in no way am I arguing with you just discussing issues. I respect you and your opinions. You have been around the sport for a long time and you help me see some things I do not think about. But I will never change my mind on this issue I am hard headed on this one.lol
See you at the track.

Sandy Lowe · 5/13/08, 9:07 PM

Kevin,

I do agree with you on the Brownstown USAC race and not getting anything in return after paying a substantial amount to compete. I just don't see what the solution is.

If enough people boycott the USAC shows (both competitors and fans) then all we will have left is local shows. Local shows are great for the fans (cost less money to get in), give the competitors a local place to race (less cost to participate but also a lesser purse).

I love local shows. It doesn't have to be Tracy Hines in the Tony Stewart Chevrolet dueling Jerry Coons, Jr. in the Hoffman Kroger car to make a great race. It could just as well be Jeff Bland, Jr. trying to track down Brady Short at the Spring Clash at Bloomington earlier this year. Or Dickie Gaines and Brandon Petty, or Shane Golobic and Jimmy Light battling to the end last year at Lawrenceburg.

Sandy

Wolfe-e · 5/13/08, 9:55 PM

I would just like to say that I have Never Liked Entry Fees and probably never will... Just another way of getting more from the Back Gate... I am Not Totally sure about the Statement that the Entry Fee goes to USAC... In the past, I believe that the backgate went to the Track, even though USAC collected it... The Track then pays the Total Purse... I believe last year for a regular USAC Sprint Show, such as Sprint Week, The cost was 28 Grand or so... Again, this was last year..
As I have said Before, USAC is at times both the Very Best in the World and often the worse as well...
Anyone who saw the MSCS Race at Terre Haute would have a hard time saying that a USAC show would be better... In Fact, the Best Sprint Car Race I have seen to this Day was the Kiss race a few years back at LPS between Stanbrough and Marvel.... Having said that... The next time USAC comes to your track, make a trip through the parking lot... Check out how many out of town and out of State tags you see... To this Day, often in spite of thereselves, USAC still brings in MORE FANS and I mean OUt of Town FAns... That spells Money, to the Tracks, The Sponsors and the Local Communities...
Can they be beat? Replaced?... Maybe, but at what cost... I have seen what can and probably will replace them.... Not sure it will be Better and I am sure that you will lose Fans... Will the numbers even out cost wise? Maybe, but in the end, you will be saying Goodbye to the All out Racing you have seen for the last 50 years...
The Best Way to deal with USAC for a track, is a few shows a year... Make them Special, Make them Events, if they are, Fans and Drivers will come... If not, well they won;t.... The Cost of Racing, at almost any level has long gone past making sense.... USAC needs to evolve there Shows... Make them more timely. Invoke and Inforce Rules that keep shows rolling... Like a Mandatory Fuel Rule.... If your out, ya can;t race... A weight rule that works, like on the Motor will bring cost down... A wheel rule that elimanates the need for 800 Hp or more... Notice I said a wheel rule and not a tire rule... A one tire rule, and co. has not made things cheeper.... It made that sponsorship to teams go away... If USAC really wanted to cut cost, the number 1 thing is to set rules, simple rules and Let Race Tracks run there own Races... If they don;t abide by the rules, don;t go back... All those USAC shirts just serve to make the local folks mad....
In closing, Good Luck to Brisky and my sympathy. I fully understand your plight.... then again if you can compete with these guys, will you really let 40 bucks keep you away... Look at the rest of the cost first...
I know, I run a lowly Modified series, what do I know? We have Never had Entry Fees and in the last 6 years the WolfPack has paid back well over 25 Grand in Tow Money Alone... Not to mention thousands more in Contengencies and now, well over 200,000 in total purse and point fund money.... With drivers competing from over 10 states and Canada the WolfPack to say it simply, has some of the Very Best Modified Racing in the Nation, period........ and believe me, there is always room for improvement,, and always someone to tell me so.......wanna race........Wolfe-e

5/13/08, 9:58 PM

Quote:

and quite honestly there are fans that want to see the Crates, Bombers, Cruisers and mini sprints too.

Not this race fan. If they happen to be on a USAC/CRA race card, and it happens occassionally, I go to the concession area and hang out there until its god-awful over. The mini-sprints or California Lightening sprints are the only exception to the above.

Kirk Spridgeon · 5/13/08, 10:57 PM

The difference between a USAC show with 45 cars and a local or MSCS show with 45 cars - would you rather see that field separated by three-quarters of a second or a second and a half?

That's what sets USAC apart in my eyes. Tracy Hines in the NQ Race at Gas City. B Mains that are just absolutely stacked. Heat races where fast guys start at the back and have to race like their asses are on fire just to transfer.

Too often in local or MSCS races with high car counts, I see contenders crashed out, or left out in the cold on a narrow track, or one guy starting on the front of a heat and drawing the front row of the feature to win without doing passing anybody because of a good pill draw.

Now, while I say that, I still really like to see those races when I am not at a USAC race, and I've seen plenty of GREAT local and MSCS races...

All I know is that I went to the first race at North Vernon this year. It was a pretty good race, with about six guys who were capable of winning on the night. At Brownstown, I saw a GREAT race with possible winners having to fight out of a non-qualifier's race, and then through a heat race, and one guy actually came from 20th to 5th in the B. And that's BEFORE the feature even starts....it's not even a debate for me!

Chris Nunn · 5/14/08, 1:40 AM

When we had the Lucas Oil Late Models at Brownstown for our Icebreaker, it was $10,000 to win and $100 to start. Everyone that ran a B-Main got back at LEAST $150.

There is a race coming up at the end of the month called the Show Me 100 for Late Models...NO ENTRY FEE $25 General Admission and it pays $42,000 to win and get this....$4,200 to start. And fast qualifier gets $2,000 just for turning the fastest lap.

With Sprint Cars around here, youre going to see the same guys no matter what if they are running for $1,200 to win or $4,000 to win. WIth Late Models, all of the Big Dogs are spread throughout the country, it takes these big shows like the Colossal ($50,000 to win), the Dream ($100,000 to win), the Topless 100 ($47,000 to win) to get all of them together to race.

Shows that Indiana is indeed the mecca of Sprint Car racing..where else will you find over 150 Sprint Cars racing at different facilities in one weekend.

DonRacer · 5/14/08, 1:48 PM

The one subject that I didn't hear anything about on the show the other night was, the cost of racing for the teams.
Ok the way it is Kevin?

riskybrisky5 · 5/14/08, 1:54 PM

Wolfie it is the principal of it just as much as the money. When you charge a entry fee and get no purse money back it is a slap in the face. Everyone will have bad nights and those are the nights you need the money the most. For you imformation $40.00 is $40.00 and that should mean alot to anyone in this economy. But it cost me $90.00 the entry fee plus a minumum of $50.00 purse money. If no entry and $50.00 purse money that is a $90.00 swing. Our business is in the dumps and no that isnt anyones fault except ours and the housing industry. All of last year really the only thing we bought for our cars was a new driveline, and that was halfway through the season knowing we needed it sooner. I flipped my car hard at Lawrenceburg early in the year and we pieced it back together with old parts laying in the garage. We struggled after that so we put an older car together which I am running right now with parts laying in the garage. The other things we purchased were the necessities methanol, tires, oil, tear offs and things like that. This year I put a the car I crashed at Lawrenceburg together for my boy and it is bent. I did buy a new driveline for it but that is it. We used parts from the past for the rest of the car. I did buy some used bumpers and nerfs from Steve Rone. Those driveline systems were around 400 so $90.00 makes a huge difference when money is tight. If Chase or I either one tear up much we would be done. So bottom line any dollars help.

riskybrisky5 · 5/14/08, 1:59 PM

Quote from Don Racer The one subject that I didn't hear anything about on the show the other night was, the cost of racing for the teams.
Ok the way it is Kevin?

It is bad I tried on that subject and failed. It is not going to change. So we have to deal with it. I still say we will be in trouble a few years down the road.

Like I said in my post before this issue is principal just as much as the money. It is not right.

5/13/08, 8:40 PM	#51 Re: Kevin Miller Tonight Racin' with D.O. @ Kelly's Pub
Sandy Lowe Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Posts: 2,699	Lucas Oil Late Models - May 16 at Farley Iowa $10,000 to win - $35 pit pass - $100 entry fee Grandstands: $25 adult - $20 senior - $20 13 to 18 - kids 12 and under free with paying adult World of Outlaw Late Models - May 16 at Attica Raceway Park $10,000 to win - $35 pit pass - entry fee ??? Grandstands: $30 adult - $15 students 11 to 15 - kids 10 and under free I will be the first to admit that I know nothing about late models (except a whole lot of them like to run the same numbers). I don't know what the rest of the purse is, what the format is, if you have to pay a fee to race with them if you are not a member, etc. But I do know they race for a heck of a lot more money than the USAC sprints do. Why?

5/13/08, 8:52 PM	#52 Re: Kevin Miller Tonight Racin' with D.O. @ Kelly's Pub
riskybrisky5 Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Posts: 284	Yes Sandy they do race for alot more money than we do. I also do not know their purse. But I would assume that everyone that particpates would recieve some prize money. I know for sure that Woo sprint car races there are no entry fees. They also pay everyone that shows up and pay big show up money to their top 10 to 20 drivers. I would not have complained as much about the entry fee if I would have recieved money for participating. But I still believe entry fees are wrong. Also Sandy in no way am I arguing with you just discussing issues. I respect you and your opinions. You have been around the sport for a long time and you help me see some things I do not think about. But I will never change my mind on this issue I am hard headed on this one.lol See you at the track.

5/13/08, 9:07 PM	#53 Re: Kevin Miller Tonight Racin' with D.O. @ Kelly's Pub
Sandy Lowe Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Posts: 2,699	Kevin, I do agree with you on the Brownstown USAC race and not getting anything in return after paying a substantial amount to compete. I just don't see what the solution is. If enough people boycott the USAC shows (both competitors and fans) then all we will have left is local shows. Local shows are great for the fans (cost less money to get in), give the competitors a local place to race (less cost to participate but also a lesser purse). I love local shows. It doesn't have to be Tracy Hines in the Tony Stewart Chevrolet dueling Jerry Coons, Jr. in the Hoffman Kroger car to make a great race. It could just as well be Jeff Bland, Jr. trying to track down Brady Short at the Spring Clash at Bloomington earlier this year. Or Dickie Gaines and Brandon Petty, or Shane Golobic and Jimmy Light battling to the end last year at Lawrenceburg. Sandy

5/13/08, 9:55 PM	#54 Re: Kevin Miller Tonight Racin' with D.O. @ Kelly's Pub
Wolfe-e Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Posts: 124	I would just like to say that I have Never Liked Entry Fees and probably never will... Just another way of getting more from the Back Gate... I am Not Totally sure about the Statement that the Entry Fee goes to USAC... In the past, I believe that the backgate went to the Track, even though USAC collected it... The Track then pays the Total Purse... I believe last year for a regular USAC Sprint Show, such as Sprint Week, The cost was 28 Grand or so... Again, this was last year.. As I have said Before, USAC is at times both the Very Best in the World and often the worse as well... Anyone who saw the MSCS Race at Terre Haute would have a hard time saying that a USAC show would be better... In Fact, the Best Sprint Car Race I have seen to this Day was the Kiss race a few years back at LPS between Stanbrough and Marvel.... Having said that... The next time USAC comes to your track, make a trip through the parking lot... Check out how many out of town and out of State tags you see... To this Day, often in spite of thereselves, USAC still brings in MORE FANS and I mean OUt of Town FAns... That spells Money, to the Tracks, The Sponsors and the Local Communities... Can they be beat? Replaced?... Maybe, but at what cost... I have seen what can and probably will replace them.... Not sure it will be Better and I am sure that you will lose Fans... Will the numbers even out cost wise? Maybe, but in the end, you will be saying Goodbye to the All out Racing you have seen for the last 50 years... The Best Way to deal with USAC for a track, is a few shows a year... Make them Special, Make them Events, if they are, Fans and Drivers will come... If not, well they won;t.... The Cost of Racing, at almost any level has long gone past making sense.... USAC needs to evolve there Shows... Make them more timely. Invoke and Inforce Rules that keep shows rolling... Like a Mandatory Fuel Rule.... If your out, ya can;t race... A weight rule that works, like on the Motor will bring cost down... A wheel rule that elimanates the need for 800 Hp or more... Notice I said a wheel rule and not a tire rule... A one tire rule, and co. has not made things cheeper.... It made that sponsorship to teams go away... If USAC really wanted to cut cost, the number 1 thing is to set rules, simple rules and Let Race Tracks run there own Races... If they don;t abide by the rules, don;t go back... All those USAC shirts just serve to make the local folks mad.... In closing, Good Luck to Brisky and my sympathy. I fully understand your plight.... then again if you can compete with these guys, will you really let 40 bucks keep you away... Look at the rest of the cost first... I know, I run a lowly Modified series, what do I know? We have Never had Entry Fees and in the last 6 years the WolfPack has paid back well over 25 Grand in Tow Money Alone... Not to mention thousands more in Contengencies and now, well over 200,000 in total purse and point fund money.... With drivers competing from over 10 states and Canada the WolfPack to say it simply, has some of the Very Best Modified Racing in the Nation, period........ and believe me, there is always room for improvement,, and always someone to tell me so.......wanna race........Wolfe-e

5/13/08, 10:57 PM	#56 Re: Kevin Miller Tonight Racin' with D.O. @ Kelly's Pub
Kirk Spridgeon Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Posts: 802	The difference between a USAC show with 45 cars and a local or MSCS show with 45 cars - would you rather see that field separated by three-quarters of a second or a second and a half? That's what sets USAC apart in my eyes. Tracy Hines in the NQ Race at Gas City. B Mains that are just absolutely stacked. Heat races where fast guys start at the back and have to race like their asses are on fire just to transfer. Too often in local or MSCS races with high car counts, I see contenders crashed out, or left out in the cold on a narrow track, or one guy starting on the front of a heat and drawing the front row of the feature to win without doing passing anybody because of a good pill draw. Now, while I say that, I still really like to see those races when I am not at a USAC race, and I've seen plenty of GREAT local and MSCS races... All I know is that I went to the first race at North Vernon this year. It was a pretty good race, with about six guys who were capable of winning on the night. At Brownstown, I saw a GREAT race with possible winners having to fight out of a non-qualifier's race, and then through a heat race, and one guy actually came from 20th to 5th in the B. And that's BEFORE the feature even starts....it's not even a debate for me!

5/14/08, 1:40 AM	#57 Re: Kevin Miller Tonight Racin' with D.O. @ Kelly's Pub
Chris Nunn Senior Member Race Count This Year: 20 Join Date: Jul 2007 Posts: 4,125	When we had the Lucas Oil Late Models at Brownstown for our Icebreaker, it was $10,000 to win and $100 to start. Everyone that ran a B-Main got back at LEAST $150. There is a race coming up at the end of the month called the Show Me 100 for Late Models...NO ENTRY FEE $25 General Admission and it pays $42,000 to win and get this....$4,200 to start. And fast qualifier gets $2,000 just for turning the fastest lap. With Sprint Cars around here, youre going to see the same guys no matter what if they are running for $1,200 to win or $4,000 to win. WIth Late Models, all of the Big Dogs are spread throughout the country, it takes these big shows like the Colossal ($50,000 to win), the Dream ($100,000 to win), the Topless 100 ($47,000 to win) to get all of them together to race. Shows that Indiana is indeed the mecca of Sprint Car racing..where else will you find over 150 Sprint Cars racing at different facilities in one weekend.

5/14/08, 1:48 PM	#58 Re: Kevin Miller Tonight Racin' with D.O. @ Kelly's Pub
DonRacer Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 117	The one subject that I didn't hear anything about on the show the other night was, the cost of racing for the teams. Ok the way it is Kevin?

5/14/08, 1:54 PM	#59 Re: Kevin Miller Tonight Racin' with D.O. @ Kelly's Pub
riskybrisky5 Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Posts: 284	Wolfie it is the principal of it just as much as the money. When you charge a entry fee and get no purse money back it is a slap in the face. Everyone will have bad nights and those are the nights you need the money the most. For you imformation $40.00 is $40.00 and that should mean alot to anyone in this economy. But it cost me $90.00 the entry fee plus a minumum of $50.00 purse money. If no entry and $50.00 purse money that is a $90.00 swing. Our business is in the dumps and no that isnt anyones fault except ours and the housing industry. All of last year really the only thing we bought for our cars was a new driveline, and that was halfway through the season knowing we needed it sooner. I flipped my car hard at Lawrenceburg early in the year and we pieced it back together with old parts laying in the garage. We struggled after that so we put an older car together which I am running right now with parts laying in the garage. The other things we purchased were the necessities methanol, tires, oil, tear offs and things like that. This year I put a the car I crashed at Lawrenceburg together for my boy and it is bent. I did buy a new driveline for it but that is it. We used parts from the past for the rest of the car. I did buy some used bumpers and nerfs from Steve Rone. Those driveline systems were around 400 so $90.00 makes a huge difference when money is tight. If Chase or I either one tear up much we would be done. So bottom line any dollars help.

5/14/08, 1:59 PM	#60 Re: Kevin Miller Tonight Racin' with D.O. @ Kelly's Pub
riskybrisky5 Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Posts: 284	Quote from Don Racer The one subject that I didn't hear anything about on the show the other night was, the cost of racing for the teams. Ok the way it is Kevin? It is bad I tried on that subject and failed. It is not going to change. So we have to deal with it. I still say we will be in trouble a few years down the road. Like I said in my post before this issue is principal just as much as the money. It is not right.