[cbaumeyer48]

The point of the 305 "Winged" car is to provide a stepping stone to the more skilled driven 410. I believe everyone on here will agree that it requires more driving skill to pilot a non-wing car. With that said, yes wings are a little costly if you go over, but what I have followed this season shows that most "winged" shows produce less flipped cars than "non-wing"..... (Again , just from the events I've been at). With that stat in mind wings to start these entry level cars assists the driver in controlling the car a bit, thus allowing them to learn the car and makes for a "potentially" safer situation. I agree with "ecrouse" on the points made. If your looking for that series with those extremely advanced maneuvers for position, I would hope you would be watching the USAC or MSCS series..... In my opinion, if someone is capable of driving at that level, hopefully they wouldn't be "cherry picking" in this series. Jmo

[SWScaleChassis]

Every once in a while, we forget the basics of our sport. We need to continue to grow our fan base. We need the casual fans to grow our fan base. Having classes that look different is a great way to build interest. We have the same car problem with modifieds. Having three classes of modifieds is crazy. I do not know how many times I have heard the new fan say "now, how these cars different? Didn't this class just race? This makes no sense." I also agree 100 percent that the 305s should have wings. What if the 305s bring a winged fan to the races who started to like non wing racing?

Nailed it.. ^^^

I wont get into the head scratching as far as all the push-back regarding a new series strating up.. It'll take me too long to understand and cause a buncha fights..

But as for the fanbase... Lets talk about history and tradition. In a post regarding the WoO at Kokomo, someone mentioned that the USAC shows are mosly older guys, while the WoO was a younger 'tattooed' up crowd. Obviously non winged (traditional/sprint car) is the rule of the roost in the Hoosier state. Folks love the tradition, and they've stuck to it. But an old crowd is just that... an old crowd. You cant impress them. Cant sell em a new t shirt. Cant market a chili-dog because "in my day a hot dog was a nickel"... Yadda yadda yadda... A new young crowd can add to the dynamic of the stands, of the whole night. Not to discredit the older die hard fans, but when things have worn themselves into such a predictible and comfortable rut, folks will either give it up, or make a change.
But I believe that Bloomington is changing with the times. Yeah, they'll still support the non winged stuff. They'd be nuts to run those guys out. But this division, aside from catering to the racers, also caters to the fans who may not know squat about sprint cars. How many of us have explained to some unknowing individual (regarding sprint car racing), and gotten the blank stare. Then we go ahead with the 'the ones with the wings on the top'... Then they respond with 'Oh Yeah, I know what youre talking about now.' Or the all popular "the dune buggy thing with the fin on the roof?"


Now lets talk Knoxville and PA, and why 3 divisions of wings works... Simple. Because folks in Kxv and PA KNOW RACING. Those fans are in the know, inside and out. Can tell you who's shop is where, where Johnny Tin-top is in the standings at Track X,Y and Z. They dont necessarily need to open up to a new fanbase because the front gate $$ is doing just fine.

Not to speculate on the books at Bloomington, but maybe they've been doing some research, seeing the draws of wings from folks across the country. Bumping the numbers of folks in the front gate at their track vs a track with winged 305's. Maybe they took this step to bring more fans. And like what was posted above, this could be an attempt to get folks in to see the 'things with the fin on top' but also with intention to drop their jaws with the NW 410's.

We can all speculate about the M.O. of Bloomington and the 'whys'. But point blank. They're running Winged 305's next season. Dont like wings? Stay home.

[DAD]

Originally Posted by SWScaleChassis Nailed it.. ^^^ I wont get into the head scratching as far as all the push-back regarding a new series strating up.. It'll take me too long to understand and cause a buncha fights.. But as for the fanbase... Lets talk about history and tradition. In a post regarding the WoO at Kokomo, someone mentioned that the USAC shows are mosly older guys, while the WoO was a younger 'tattooed' up crowd. Obviously non winged (traditional/sprint car) is the rule of the roost in the Hoosier state. Folks love the tradition, and they've stuck to it. But an old crowd is just that... an old crowd. You cant impress them. Cant sell em a new t shirt. Cant market a chili-dog because "in my day a hot dog was a nickel"... Yadda yadda yadda... A new young crowd can add to the dynamic of the stands, of the whole night. Not to discredit the older die hard fans, but when things have worn themselves into such a predictible and comfortable rut, folks will either give it up, or make a change. But I believe that Bloomington is changing with the times. Yeah, they'll still support the non winged stuff. They'd be nuts to run those guys out. But this division, aside from catering to the racers, also caters to the fans who may not know squat about sprint cars. How many of us have explained to some unknowing individual (regarding sprint car racing), and gotten the blank stare. Then we go ahead with the 'the ones with the wings on the top'... Then they respond with 'Oh Yeah, I know what youre talking about now.' Or the all popular "the dune buggy thing with the fin on the roof?" Now lets talk Knoxville and PA, and why 3 divisions of wings works... Simple. Because folks in Kxv and PA KNOW RACING. Those fans are in the know, inside and out. Can tell you who's shop is where, where Johnny Tin-top is in the standings at Track X,Y and Z. They dont necessarily need to open up to a new fanbase because the front gate $$ is doing just fine. Not to speculate on the books at Bloomington, but maybe they've been doing some research, seeing the draws of wings from folks across the country. Bumping the numbers of folks in the front gate at their track vs a track with winged 305's. Maybe they took this step to bring more fans. And like what was posted above, this could be an attempt to get folks in to see the 'things with the fin on top' but also with intention to drop their jaws with the NW 410's. We can all speculate about the M.O. of Bloomington and the 'whys'. But point blank. They're running Winged 305's next season. Dont like wings? Stay home.

WOW!!!

Look Punk I'm 67 years old and I represent that remark!!!

Hoosiers are very traditional something to do with the "500" I guess. Change is hard. How long have you been around? Like connoisseurs of fine wines Hoosier race fans take their racing very seriously, what you might have seen as a super race to them may have only rated a 1 or 2 on their scale of greatness. They very seldom stand to watch the action but curse those that do. For all of their crying and moaning, B1tching and cursing they are in the end race fans and when push comes to shove they will support them winged things and probably enjoy the action.

Honest Dad himself

PS. All of us old "died in the wool" race fans seem to be dying off for some unknown reason and we haven't done a lot to cultivated any new ones.

[SWScaleChassis]

I never meant any offense with the old age thing. But as for your comment on 'dying off' as morbid as it sounds, realistically its true.

I'm 22. From Arizona, now living in SC. Never been to Indiana, only seen videos and TV shows. Would LOVE to get up there and see my share of action, but I'll need long sleeves to hide my tattoos...

Really don't wanna see any tracks fall through the cracks before I get there though. And If I gotta sit through an abomination like the cursed 'Winged Cars' in order to see what is Indiana Sprint Car racing, I think I'll tolerate it...

[captrat]

Originally Posted by SWScaleChassis Nailed it.. ^^^ I wont get into the head scratching as far as all the push-back regarding a new series strating up.. It'll take me too long to understand and cause a buncha fights.. But as for the fanbase... Lets talk about history and tradition. In a post regarding the WoO at Kokomo, someone mentioned that the USAC shows are mosly older guys, while the WoO was a younger 'tattooed' up crowd. Obviously non winged (traditional/sprint car) is the rule of the roost in the Hoosier state. Folks love the tradition, and they've stuck to it. But an old crowd is just that... an old crowd. You cant impress them. Cant sell em a new t shirt. Cant market a chili-dog because "in my day a hot dog was a nickel"... Yadda yadda yadda... A new young crowd can add to the dynamic of the stands, of the whole night. Not to discredit the older die hard fans, but when things have worn themselves into such a predictible and comfortable rut, folks will either give it up, or make a change. But I believe that Bloomington is changing with the times. Yeah, they'll still support the non winged stuff. They'd be nuts to run those guys out. But this division, aside from catering to the racers, also caters to the fans who may not know squat about sprint cars. How many of us have explained to some unknowing individual (regarding sprint car racing), and gotten the blank stare. Then we go ahead with the 'the ones with the wings on the top'... Then they respond with 'Oh Yeah, I know what youre talking about now.' Or the all popular "the dune buggy thing with the fin on the roof?" Now lets talk Knoxville and PA, and why 3 divisions of wings works... Simple. Because folks in Kxv and PA KNOW RACING. Those fans are in the know, inside and out. Can tell you who's shop is where, where Johnny Tin-top is in the standings at Track X,Y and Z. They dont necessarily need to open up to a new fanbase because the front gate $$ is doing just fine. Not to speculate on the books at Bloomington, but maybe they've been doing some research, seeing the draws of wings from folks across the country. Bumping the numbers of folks in the front gate at their track vs a track with winged 305's. Maybe they took this step to bring more fans. And like what was posted above, this could be an attempt to get folks in to see the 'things with the fin on top' but also with intention to drop their jaws with the NW 410's. We can all speculate about the M.O. of Bloomington and the 'whys'. But point blank. They're running Winged 305's next season. Dont like wings? Stay home.

Wow, all this about the wing vs non-wing is getting a bit over the top. It's fine to be passionate about your likes, but some of the so-called conclusions on both sides of this issue seem a bit baseless, along with some of the unnecessary ultimatums about who should attend, etc. I am basically a non-wing guy, but watched many wing shows. I now seldom attend because the technology of aero, tires and motors have substantially reduced the kind of action that early winged racing provided. Lastly, am I the only guy who remembers that winged racing was once dominant in Indiana back in the 80's. Where did it go and why? Winged racing has certainly taken over the public's identification with sprint car racing, but this is related to many things including marketing, media exposure, and embracing by now nationally known drivers in other forms of racing.

[JarrettFarms73]

Why is this thread back to "wing vs non wing: which do you like?" When the OP and first couple pages were about semantics?

They're called Racesavers but you want to add $800 parts. It's a stepping stone but they drive nothing like a non wing 410. Tony Stewart said in an interview that was the appeal of the wing cars; he'd already mastered usac and liked the challenge of learning wings. Concern the support class will either slick off the FEATURED series track condition or delay the evening to the late hours making distant travel fans hesitant to go. If it's about new fans, how late will the stay out and still consider coming back? Is this an additional support class or a replacement class? Once again, longer evening or replacing support class fans w/ sprint car fans who are already there? The wing fans are already there supporting non wings, right?! It wouldn't make sense to chastise the non wing fans if this weren't the case.

I love sprint cars. Non wing is simply my preference not my rule. The idea of seeing more sprint cars in a night sounds awesome but as a part of what I believe to be the most astute racing fans around, (sprint cars) I'm not going act like there's not a trade off to be considered here.

[Charles Nungester]

Im a fan and have no dog other than I come to Bloomington about 3 times a year on a 350mi round trip pay my addmission and eat concessions.

I don't give a crap what a car looks like, If its good racing, I'll watch it. If a class has some drivers I know from other tracks, Like the Mods do, I'll watch em.

My experience is that Winged heat racing sucks, While a long green feature with wings can be as good as any racing. Try something different, Two 15 lap heats and a 30 lap feature if your going to run wings, Get em some laps and the chance to actually race instead of hanging on for the final 7 laps of a 8 lap heat. Until everyone's getting dirty air. There is no racing.

Two. Is this going to deplete or increase the headliner class? The reason i come in the first place and the track has had a few weeks with non 20 car fields already if some of the existing teams drop out of the 410s to do it. Whats the incentive for me to come?

Don't get me wrong, I think experience in both types of cars helps drivers become better.

I don't buy the More flips in NW or even the safety thing other than helping keep foreign objects from the cockpit with the wing.

I also think people way overestimate the popularity of wings. I don't remember the crowds being any bigger on weekly winged shows back in the 80s-90s. The WoO is a different story. All the tracks kicked the Midwest All Stars out as a inferior product to their weekly NW racing.

I don't know how it will work. I hope it work's for the track. I wish it was NW. Im sorry, thats my preference,

I also don't buy the wing making rookies better, Ive seen a bunch of kids come straight from karts or TQ's and with a couple races of 410 experience, Start moving forward in the big class.

It is what it is, my opinion don't count for much. I just think other than the feature, We'd see much better racing NW, The reason a fan comes in the first place, And more importantly, The reason a fan comes back!

[DAD]

These guys are talking about another support class. One that might complement their Premier class. As a support class racer I have noticed that about 5% of the racers will move up to another division, We call them "Hot Shoes" about 30% will get started and decide racing is just not for them and move on to something else, That leaves you with the 65% of us racers in the support classes that keep the thing going.

Winged 305 Sprints in the final analysis is going to be just another form of racing that some people will try out and move on>>> either up or out while the majority hopefully will stay with it and enjoy their racing experience, maybe helping out the hot shoes a bit by giving them competition to hone their skills on and also putting up with the wannabees who haven't decided just how much they are willing to sacrifice in order to race.

CHILL and don't put so much passion in a track's desire to experiment looking for a better way to put on an enjoyable show for the race fans, be they in the Grand Stands the in the Pits.

Honest Dad himself

[JarrettFarms73]

I would be interested in hearing from the 600 and TQ teams as to what their plan is. I certainly don't wish any ill will to the small tracks but I've always hoped for a way those teams could could make it more often to the big tracks.

[oldfan49]

My concern is I have what these over winged, over tired even if they are 305s will do to a race track. And I know how they lobby to eliminate any type of cushion.
That being said if they run the sprint cars 1st and then the winged cars 2nd it may make the mods and other classes very happy and make the mod racing better as the mechanical bite they buy will be helped by the aero bite the winged cars have killing off the track. And you have a class that those who can't for whatever reason race a sprint car can get into
We have learned in this area the winged cars, mods, and late models all prefer the icy slick to rubbered down nothing bigger than a sheep foot hole with no cushion allowed track.
Here when they do invite the sprint cars they run last and idle the turns with a little bit of throttle from the corner to the flag stand.