[TQ29m]

Just remember this, "be careful what you wish for". Am I the only one that remembers when modified's got started? Probably, as I probably am the oldest one on here right now. I had just opened up a new business, and karting had taken one of it's usual slumps, and I was looking to do something "open wheel", like the karts had been, just a week or two before, so I happened on this ad, for a "spec" class, open wheel, sort of racer, that had nerfs, and a "stock" engine, and was reasonably priced, and before I could place an order for one, that was all gone, big motors, big tires, bigger bodies that changed between the heats and the feature, and in a blink, the racer I thought looked like something a guy on a budget could handle, was gone, need I go any further? Here's my thought, and I don't have a dog in this fight, but leave what you have, alone, leave the name alone, and quit arguing about what it should, or should not be, run what the majority has, and if the non-wing appeals to more people, run non-wing, easier on motors, easier on the wifes egg money, less upkeep and expense, but for once, quit whining and nagging on an open forum, people get tired of it, and especially those who are just beginning to understand what a "mini-sprint" is, don't further confuse them, and lose them, either as fans, or racers, and above all, don't try to convince me, that instead of a TQ midget, I should have a mini-sprint, believe me, if I wanted one, I'd have one, just that simple, to me, it's all about "tradition", and a TQ has as much tradition, as a Champ Car, or a Silver Crown, or if you're old enough, a "Big Car", quit beating the dead horse, and run/race what you have, and be good at it. My 2 cent's, just sayin! Bob!

[DAD]

Originally Posted by TQ29m Just remember this, "be careful what you wish for". Am I the only one that remembers when modified's got started? Probably, as I probably am the oldest one on here right now. I had just opened up a new business, and karting had taken one of it's usual slumps, and I was looking to do something "open wheel", like the karts had been, just a week or two before, so I happened on this ad, for a "spec" class, open wheel, sort of racer, that had nerfs, and a "stock" engine, and was reasonably priced, and before I could place an order for one, that was all gone, big motors, big tires, bigger bodies that changed between the heats and the feature, and in a blink, the racer I thought looked like something a guy on a budget could handle, was gone, need I go any further? Here's my thought, and I don't have a dog in this fight, but leave what you have, alone, leave the name alone, and quit arguing about what it should, or should not be, run what the majority has, and if the non-wing appeals to more people, run non-wing, easier on motors, easier on the wifes egg money, less upkeep and expense, but for once, quit whining and nagging on an open forum, people get tired of it, and especially those who are just beginning to understand what a "mini-sprint" is, don't further confuse them, and lose them, either as fans, or racers, and above all, don't try to convince me, that instead of a TQ midget, I should have a mini-sprint, believe me, if I wanted one, I'd have one, just that simple, to me, it's all about "tradition", and a TQ has as much tradition, as a Champ Car, or a Silver Crown, or if you're old enough, a "Big Car", quit beating the dead horse, and run/race what you have, and be good at it. My 2 cent's, just sayin! Bob!

IT's about Time Bob. I was wondering when you were going to come down and get into this ol Dog Fight. We were racing 600cc uprights when the micro guys came up with the modidied 600 sidewinder class. I was racing micros back in the 50's when the hot set up was a Cushman 20 ci motor with reversed ports, Ford 60 valves and home made watercooled blocks. We were hi tech back then at least we thought we was.

Well they finally ran out of Cushmans and the Konig cost to much and they just didn't have enough Viller 250 motors to go around. In the late 80's Honda came out with the 600cc Huricane motor. People racing the 1200cc Mini sprints got to that point where they just could not afford an Orient express or JT Race motor. There were a ton of these Honda motors laying around and you could buy a good low mile motor for about $400.00 back then, much cheaper that a 10 grand 4 race Orient express motor. They ran great and I guess the micro guys in Okhaloma saw they were a good motor also. We made all kinds of rules to keep them from racing with us, axil placement, feet placement we went crazy. when all we needed to do was use the weight, tire size and wheel base.

To make a long story short. I think every gokarter except you got a 600cc sidewinder, and like gokarters you could sell these guys anything. When I raced gokarts they sold a hone for your tail pipe to make them faster and sold a boat load of them to racers looking for that last ounce of power. Never thought about driving or set up got to be the motor.

It is almost impossible to get more hp out of these 1000cc motors or 600cc motors for that matter but with the 600cc sidewinders they got a lot more hard sale people selling 600cc snake oil and the sidewinder people bought it.

One big reason 600cc upright's went down was there was only a certain number of wrecked 600cc bikes out there. All the gokart people were buying up the 600cc motors. I guess the side winder guys felt they drove more like a gokart and the price went from $400.00 each to closer to $2500.00 for a good motor. And now like TQ's the best motor to hot rod for the Micro is going on 6 or 7 years old, More money,more money more money.

Now these 1000cc motors are getting more popular all the time too, not only in mini sprints but also in Dwarf cars and Mod lites and even sport car racers in Formula B. They had a big earth quake in Japan and we lost a years worth of motorcycles. Guess what that is doing to the cost of our motors! And now to add insult to injury the people in China are buying up all the 600 and 1000cc pocket rockets. There is a lot of people in China.

We have a good thing going here, too bad you don't come over and race with us. I understand you aren't too far from Brownstown. To keep this type of racing going I think it is a good idea to keep looking forward and adapting to change. We don't want to re-invent the wheel but would like to keep our options open.

Honest Dad himself

[Cadpro18]

Not to mention what the recession did to bike sales...

[DAD]

Originally Posted by STUMPS88 Bob... I disagree with you... Have you ever seen the tubing thickness of the hench and some older ERC and Bailey cars?..Not to thick!...These cars are NOT safe without a wing... I can say i ran non wing once and had a blast truthfully... But after seeing the destruction it can cause flipping non wing id prob. not do it again in my Bailey... The 1 and only time our club did it one guy flipped his bailey about 9 times outa the park and the end result was a bent and destroyed chassis with cracked and bent bars every where 2 black eyes, concussion and a aneurysm in the poor guy... 1 other car was re stubbed after that race and another needed minor repairs to replace a few bent tubes from flipping...The wings slows dont momentum fast and helps a lot in a flip... BELIEVE IT OR NOT...

They are some light weight cars out there. Back in the 90's Floyd Bailey built what he called "The light weight chassis" mostly for 600cc cars. We had a guy race them down here at Thunder Valley. Every time he flipped the thing it was new frame time, lucky for him he had more money than driving ability or brains.

Most mini sprint rules stipulate a top roll bar thickness of .090 chrome moly or .120 shelby tube, the diameter is 1/8 inch smaller than that of a full midget. so a midget frame works just fine, for us maybe 10 pounds heaver.

They make an ultrasonic thickness tester to check tube thickness with and I understand one group has one already. These light weight cars are dangerous and need to be replaced with proper size frame as they get bent up.

You can get these testers now for a couple of hundred bucks on Ebay and I think it would be a good idea for promoters to get one and use it.

Wings are a good deal for safety sake and I'll go along with the wife, they make a safer race car.

Honest Dad himself

[RoyaltonMiniSprint]

Have no problem with non wing racing just isn't what I want to do. Always wanted to race winged sprint cars this is as close as I'm going to get. Even my car builder doesn't like winged racing. They race USAC champ dirt and pavement cars!!!

[treecitytornado]

I loved my days of racing Mini-Sprints back in 96 & 97 and I loved running with a wing. We had one special Non-Wing show at Sullivan in 1997 and it was fun, but I personally believe Mini-Sprints are supposed to be run with a Wing. It's ok to have a couple special, better paying Non-Wing shows, but don't make it a regular thing! If you get too many more Non-Wing races, it won't be a Winged Warrior Tour anymore. JMO

Posted via Mobile Device

[DAD]

Originally Posted by treecitytornado I loved my days of racing Mini-Sprints back in 96 & 97 and I loved running with a wing. We had one special Non-Wing show at Sullivan in 1997 and it was fun, but I personally believe Mini-Sprints are supposed to be run with a Wing. It's ok to have a couple special, better paying Non-Wing shows, but don't make it a regular thing! If you get too many more Non-Wing races, it won't be a Winged Warrior Tour anymore. JMO Posted via Mobile Device

Better paying? That would be nice, tell that to the track owners. They want to pay less when the wings come off.

Honest Dad himself

[TM123]

I wasn't looking to turn this into a wing vs non-wing issue. I was just trying to point out that there are already places to run this car without changing a whole division.

I understand about looking ahead and keeping cost down heck we all want that. I just don't see how this is it. Remember we are talking about a motor that had already failed in midgets due to the cost getting out of hand.

As far as reliability goes, sure they might last 4 or 5 years but then again they might not. And within that time how many re-builds will you need to make? All it will take is one person to re-build their motor every season and win for everyone else to be forced to follow suit just to keep up.

You can run these motorcycle motors for quite a while before they fall off and the cost to re-build them cost more than getting another one out of a crashed bike. Also, we are learning there is very little gain in building up one of these motors but it will sure shortin the life.

[latemodel55]

The motor we are working with is not the same engine being used by usac midgets. This engine is completly different it is a 08-11 2.0 duratec. The motor is completly computer controlled,so if you can police the computer you can police the engine.Ford has told us if they lock the PCM the motor will not run with any internal mods.

[DAD]

Originally Posted by latemodel55 The motor we are working with is not the same engine being used by usac midgets. This engine is completly different it is a 08-11 2.0 duratec. The motor is completly computer controlled,so if you can police the computer you can police the engine.Ford has told us if they lock the PCM the motor will not run with any internal mods.

We can talk about that thing all day long**** or we can race it! I would rather race it! Never bet on making any thing tamper proof Human's can work around anything, that is why I love racing!

Honest Dad himself (Trust Me)